unquote, a compromise when both progressives are advertising the north star, where we need to go, then offering a compromise and begging, what is your alternative to this? they cannot offer a specific alternative. >> that is a really good point, because anyone who has been through a negotiation, it goes like this. there is an offer, there is a counter. you need a counter. i've been in negotiations where you're waiting on the counter and it drives you nuts. where is the counter? where is the counter? that's the thing, manchin's counter is a strategic pause. or maybe we don't do anything at all. maybe he's doing this privately, but if manchin doesn't have a counter, they should see what the counter is. >> it's like debating with children. you start with what you should eat for dinner, maybe carrots or broccoli, how about macaroni and cheese? no, no, no. give me something to work with. put something on the table and get to yes. this is a team sport.