by them, gmail product manager that is designed -- product philosopher. his job was to study the way screen applications in black the with the users of their product. -- i overall aptitude, health. in 2013, the internal -- on the ethical role responsibility of tech companies. that presentation started dialogue, it wasn't enough. in 2016, he decided to leave google and pursue change in how we direct interact with technology, eventually cofounding the center for humane technology. it appeared in the netflix documentary social dilemma. in what he expressed is now dangerous uncheck social media can be. >> it's not enough that you lose the product consciously, i want to dig deeper into the brain stem and discover and unconscious have it. so that you are being programed at a deeper level, you don't even realize it. >> and tristan harris joins me now. great to have you here, i know this is something you've been