stepping back to stone, giving him one more chance. the window is closing, roger, but i can't rule that out yet. he may never come in and talk to the prosecutors, but he may. >> but he may. the thing is, sam, if he's facing up to 50 years, you've also got rudy giuliani out there. who knows what's going to happen to him legally. you have paul manafort out there who is the guy behind the insane conspiracy theory, the u.s. didn't land on the moon-style conspiracy theory and of ukraine. you've got him throughout. michael cohen has already made it clear trump is disloyal as you have said. there's going to be -- >> i made it clear, too. >> you did. you have. you've said it to me. there's going to be a race to the pardon line, right? somebody is going to get it, if anyone gets it at all. do you think any of them will actually say, let me save myself and stop defending this guy? there are a lot of people on the list who could do it. would any of them do it? >> they don't have anything and this is where i'll part ways with glenn. if roger does what glenn says,