we know the child is doing and is fully human from a very -- >> in regular cases, courts decide whether science fits the dalbert standard. obviously, under the dalbert standard, the minority of people, a gross minority of doctors, who believe fetal pain exists before 24, 25 weeks, and one not well-founded in science, at all. so i don't see how that really adds anything to the discussion. that a small fringe of doctors believe that pain could be experienced before a cortex is formed. it doesn't mean that there's been that much of a difference since casey. >> we pointed out as an example, your honor, of where roe and