Transcripts For MSNBC MSNBC Live 20110214 : vimarsana.com

as tear gas is used on them. i m going to debate tonight on the social revolution in iraq opinion plus, exposing a huge divide in the republican party. they re booing and hollering at each other. and ron fall is driving the accomplishment crazy. who s right and who s wrong? an explosive associated press speci special. an investigation shows dead detainees with zero accountability. a reporter reveals all the details tonight. now today, president obama rolled out hids nes nearly $4 trillion budget. it axes $1 trillion in programs for the next ten years. let s look at the numbers. he has cut $200 billion over the next two years. $200 billion in saving s. that s got to do it, right? that s a huge amount to cut. let s do math. i like math on this program. as you remember, nay just had an $858 billion in tax cuts over the next two years. when you subtract the $200 billion they just cut to the $858 billion in tax cuts, you still have $658 billion to go and you still haven t made it up. these cuts, whether it s obama or the republicans, it s not putting a dent in the budget because of the giant tax cuts. we keep focussing on the wrong problem. let me prove it to you without a shadow of a doubt. the projected deficit in 2011 is $1.6 trillion. the whole nondefense discreti discretionary spending budget in 2010 was $477 billion. do you know what that means? that means if you took nondefense discretionary spending, okay, all of it, all of it, wiped it out to 0, that s it, we cut everything outside of defense, you would still have a deficit that was over $1.1 trillion. you can t cut your your way to doing this. it s so obvious. but that didn t deter president obama. let ge yif you an exampl me gu an example. $300 million for community block grants. i thought he was a community activist guy. how about $2.35 billion cut for low income home energy staent assistance program. poor people don t need heat in the middle of the winter. and $400 billion five-year domestic spending freeze. that also gets cut. when you add all of these up, it still doesn t come close to the tax cuts to the rich that they just gave them. what drive mess crazy is that no one in washington cares. they re like look, you can t argue with the numbers. it there s not a person in the world that can t argue with the numbers. spending cut s for the rich, tht would be awesome. they hit the poor, they hit the middle class. look, let me give you another problem with this, which is the framing, right? so obama agrees to the gop framing. give tax cuts to the rich to help their economy. but that doesn t help the economy. then cut programs for the middle class and the poor to balance the budget. but you can t balance the budget that way. all you re doing is helping them for for all his efforts, is obama going to say all right, finally he cut the spending like we told him to. let s give him credit. do you think that s going to happen? of course not. eric cantor says, the president missed a unique opportunity to provide real leadership. republican budget chair paul ryan says, quote, in this critical test of leadership the president has failed. how about republican committee chair jim jordan. he said, the president failed a crucial test of leadership. how about john cornyn. he says, president obama s timid budget proposal is a missed opportunity to lead. you cut the heating for the poor, you cut programs for the middle class. i didn t even tell you about the pell grants he cut, graduate school loans. cut, cut, cut, including community access. and what did you get? nothing. but i ll tell you what the down side of all this is you re moving the spectrum to the right. let me show it to you in football terms. a fun little graph here. there s theoretically, obama on the left, republicans on the right. that s where they start out and that s where the center is. but when obama does a preemptive center and says i will give you these programs right from the beginning, he moves to the right. but the republicans don t move towards the center to him, they say fantastic, thank you for moving to the right. we ll also move right. now look at where the center is. it s closer to the hard right end zone. they re about to score and obama doesn t get it. now you see where i stand on this. let s talk to some others now. congressman look, i want to talk about the republicans in a second, but i want to talk about president obama. do you think it s a good idea to do these budget cuts and give in to the republicans who don t give anything back? soo. i think they re not priorities i would push. i do give him credit for focussing on the need to keep going with health care reform, which is the largest source of our budget deficit in the future, and retaining the commitment to rebuild and renew america, putting americans to work, revitalizing our communities. but you were right at the top. if we re going to not deal with health care reform, and if we re not going to deal with the fact that these tax cuts actually significantly increased the deficit, we re going to be chasing our tails. we should be reforming the tax system, not extending the tax cuts. congressman, is there any effort by the democrats, whether it s the in the house, the senate, i know there isn t in the white house, to say you know what, we ll talk about cuts. that s a fair discussion. sometimes you need cuts to ball loons the budget, that s reasonable, right? but you have to talk about tax cuts for the rich. if you don t give back some of the money they just took, we re not going to talk about cuts. sop quid pro quo, you put up or you shut up. is there a movement like that among the democrats or none whatsoever? there were a number of us, as you know, who hoet voted against the extension of the tax cuts at the end of the last congress it. it s going to be on the table quickly. the republicans are going to continue to push ahead with this, along with their crazy ideas increasing the debt limits with draconian elements. we re going to be in the middle of this over the course of the next two years. i agree we need to have tax reform. the last thing we need to do is extend tax cuts for people who need them the least, but we also need to continue with the rebuilding and renewing america, and accelerating health care reform, not trying to eliminate it. congressman, let me get more specific. to president obama s credit, and to the democrats credit, they want to take away oil subsidy. some of them do. some of them don t, but a lot of them do. $36 billion over the next ten years. that s a giant number, right? so how about again, we ve been throughout the segment, we ve been talking ability the two 46 year time period. that would be $7 billion they would save. the republicans say no, i need to give it to the oil companies because i m going to cut from the poor, i m going to cut from the middle class, but i ve got to give it to my oil company friends. can t the democrats say that s it, we re not going to give you a dime of cuts until you cut the subsidies from the richest companies in the world? i introduced legislation last week that would cut over $40 billion over the next five years. many of those tr embare embedde the president s budget. we ought to spotlight the fact that the republicans won t allow tax break loophole closing to count towards deficit reduction, but just because those are rather silly rules doesn t mean we shouldn t push ahead and try to do it. i agree, but you guys have to draw a line. if you don t draw a line and say we are not doing a single cut until you agree to that, uh you re going to get rolled over. i don t know if the white house understand that and if the democrats in congress understand that. my guess is i have to be honest with you, i think that you guys aren t going to insist on it. and when you don t, you re not going to win. well, we re involved with sort of an elaborate four-way igs d discussion here. we have the republicans in the house proposing draconian, ideologically driven massive cuts. we have the proposal from the president. we re going to be pushing back on the house committee for democrats and we re going to have to be working with the senate. i m convinced that if we are aggressive in terms of tax justice, in terms of being sensible in the reductions and areas like the military, like areas of agriculture reform, and accelerating health care reform, i think there s a path that the american public will agree with. all right, congressman bloombloo bloomenaur. thanks for your time. the initial concessions by president obama before the initial negotiations begin is that a mistake? i think we ve seen time and time again, a president preemptively making concessions that abet his opponents and demoralize his supporters. leadership cannot be defined by compromise. this president was played a good hand in my ways. i m thinking last year on the tax cuts. the preemptive concessions took away his good hand. and he had on his side public opinion. but you can t just let that sit there. you have to mobilize public opinion with your leadership. our system in many ways is rigged. through the power of establishment money, through the lobbyists that swamp d.c. every day .. but, on the other hand, you can provide leadership that lays out a different narrative. cenk, we re having this debate about the budget, completely wrong frame, skewed priorities. a budget is not just a set of numbers, it s a moral document. it s also a reflection of a nation s values and aspirations. and if we re a nation that s going to balance a budget on the back of the working class and low income americans to the benefit of the richest multiinternational companies, then we are a nation different than what we re seeing in the middle east, but we are a nation in dire need of our pro democracy unit who have built it, made it strong, those who brought us the financial crisis who robbed trillions from people who have worked so hard over these last decades. we have to understand what the heck is going on inside the white house, right? do we? i think we need to understand what we re going to do outside the white house, outside of d.c. i hear you. we noo ed to change the balance of forces, to change the nature of political power to find a way to have a different debate. the president, with all due respect, great cuts to big oil, the national infrastructure bank is a good thing, but this president is not going to lead us to the promised land. i understand that, and i 100% agree with you. dent get me wrong. these guys aren t listening to us. cutting from the middle class and giving to the rich. they re doing it over and over again. but does the president even understand this? it s, of course, important for us to understand the democratic president if he s on our side or not. does he say i. ei don t give a damn or is he going am i giving in to republican framing? i did not know that. we have a blueprint of cruelty in the gop plan. they did not have a mandate to do what they were doing. it was about a wlolousy economyd joblessness, not a desire for big spending cuts that put them in. but this president is now seeking re-election in 2012, and this president is charting his own course. it is a course which sadly has demobilized a base which helped elect him to the white house. and so i think at the end of the day, we need to lay out alternatives. it is insanity that we have this military spending, 58% of the discretionary spending budget, and we have alternatives. barney frank and ron paul, if everyone is always seeking bipartisanship, laid out a good plan. by 2020, cuts near think $1 trillion. $70 billion ain t going to do it over five years. and we have a military budget that is larger during the bush years or the cold war. this is insanity. and two wars costing about $120 billion a year. we can do better, but it s going to require people outside of washington, working with allies inside. you said it earlier, nobody in d.c. cares? there are allies inside this congress. and we can say hey, enough. there s a disconnect between what s going on in washington and what this country needs. absolutely. we re going to have a ron paul supporter on here and we re going to see if we can find true bipartisanship. what s wrong with the republican party? can they fix it from the right? can we fix it from left? can we get it in, the real middle of the country? not the fake center of washington. i don t think what s called the center in washington is the true center of this country. absolutely right. thank you so much for your time tonight. president obama walked a tight rope of egypt. here come the monday morning republican quarterbacks. the rest are all criticizing the president. do they have a point? doubt it. and it might be valentine s day, but the republican party has no love for liberals or each other. instability, booing and yelling, headline their big conference over the weekend. we bring in a conservative to tell us what all the fighting was about. ho meowners , rates have been going up, but you can still refinance to a fixed rate as low as 4.5% at lendingtree.com, where customers save an average of $293 a month. call lendingtree today. - boy: go down! down. down. - boy #2: whoa. straight, go straight. no, to the right! kids: to the right! to the right! go to the right! boy: go to the right! - boy #1: whoa! - boy #2: whoa! boy #3: what is that? well, that s a. i don t know. whoa. can we call him blinky? - announcer: expert teaching. - kids: whoa! deeper learning. together, we are the human network. cisco. with all the equipment you use to stay fit, you might want to try lifting one of these. in recent years we ve added a unique natural sea salt to over 40 campbell s condensed soups. it helps us reduce sodium, but not flavor. so if you re ready to eat a little better, grab your spoon and do a few lifts. campbell s.® it s amazing what soup can do.™ inspired by egypt, tens of thousands of demonstrators took to the streets in tehran, forcing a swift and bloody backlash from their government, unfortunately. police in riot gear attacked protesters with tear gas and beatings. witnesses say police forces fired bullets at the people in the crowd. at least one demonstrator was killed by the violence. iranian security forces also cut the phone lines and reportedly blocked the internet to try to crush the protests. now, there are two different ideas on how to encourage democracy in iran. one is, of course, the egyptian model where you go and organize online, wael ghonim has said, quote, if you want to liberate a government, give them the internet. it s impossible for me to agree more with that. that s obviously what worked in egypt. it was nonviolent, it happened in 1 days. compare that with the iraq model where we bomb, bomb, bomb. and what happened? disaster. how can anybody argue with that? but look, let s lay it out for you. ghonim says here s the tools you should use facebook, twitter and the blog, right? john bolton, our former u.n. ambassador, of course, a well known neo-con said on numerous occasions said the correct way to do it is bombs, bombs and bombs. of course, the answer is obvious. look at egypt, look at iraq. but it looks like the u.s. government has gone with the ghonim strategy. we even started tweeting in farsi to reach an iranian audience. this says the u.s. calls on iran to allow people to enjoy same universal rights to peacefully assemble, demonstrate as in cairo. clearly going with the egyptian model. that s exactly right. then secretary of state clinton was also very clear on preferring the egyptian model. what we see happening in iran today is the a testament to the courage of the iranian people and an indictment of the hypocrisy of the iranian regime which which over the last three weeks has constantly hailed what went on in egypt. and now when given the opportunity to afford their people the same rights as they called for on behalf of the egyptian people, once again, illustrate their true nature. all right. go get em. point out the hypocrisy. let s give the people the tools to be able to organize and then they do whatever they do. that was the good news. the bad news is in the budget that was unveiled today, they cut $1.84 billion from the economic support fund which helps countries move towards democracy. oops. i wouldn t have gone in that direction. in egypt, the population is 80 million, right? 60% are under 30. in iran, the population is 76 million, very similar. 66% are under the age of 30. which means, just like in egypt, weave got the young, they re online. that s why iran cut the internet, because they re scared to death of the internet. we can reach the young in iran. they can do the same thing in which they did in egypt. but some neo-cons in america think bombing is the better strategy, which is clearly mental. now let me bring in a well known neo-con to see where he stands. he s james gaffney, former degrees secretary for president reagan. first, let me stand on iran. do you still see the neo-conservative strategy of bombing is the right way to go? or do you realize no, no, the egyptian model is better? i think all of us have hoped for a long time, cenk, that we would be able to help the people of iran liberate themselves. unfortunately, the obama administration has not seen fit to do that. in stark contrast it s been encouraging the regime to think that it supports it instead of the people of iran. the regime change through these kinds of means, we re going to have to have stop the nuclear weapons program that s moving forward and will threaten not only our friends in israel. do you think iran will build a nuclear weapon that reaches the united states? . you put is a missile iffer a nuclear weapon on a ship. you bring the missile on the ship. they re going to build a ship that have gets close to our water and launch a nuclear missile on that ship? when? 2030? 2080? what time frame are you talking about? a commission back in 2004 were pointing out the iranians have tested the kinds of missiles that could be used in an attack against the united states years ago. and that s the problem. years ago. okay. that s fact just to answer your question. you put a missile on a tra transporter launcher on a steamer. i know. they re going to nuke us from a boat. i know it. it could happen. it would be a good idea. frank, let me ask you this. are you telling me they re not working on it. do you think it s are you going to listen to the question? i wanted to clarify. do you think we should reach out to the young protesters or do you think it s a smarter strategy to drop bombs on their head? do you think they ll say oh, wow you can they killed my aunt. that s awesome. let s join the americans. i think i answered that have question, cenk. it would be far preferable and it s a tragedy the united states government under president obama and for that matter under president bush didn t do a lot more to empower the people of iran. and here s the problem. the government in iran is not like the government that we helped bring down in egypt. it s not on our side. it is, as we saw today, willing to use violence against people extensive li and repress them. so dropping bombs on the protesters is what you would do go to. i certainly didn t say that and i don t think it s fair to suggest it. but you re saying if this doesn t work in the beginning do you want me to answer your question? i m asking you, do you want to bomb iran? you re going to drop a bomb on innocent civilians, yes? right? obviously? do you have a problem with that. will you take it off the table or won t you? i would not take it off the table if the alternative is having an iranian regime to have seek destruction armed with nuclear weapons. those should be applied to the iranian regime. we re propping them up. we re not propping up the iranian regime. that s ridiculous. we absolutely are. the president of the united states has withheld any tiend of material support for the people of iran. you had these theories about jihadists and they re all over the world it s not theorys. it. s fact. the protesters were you on their side? did you want democracy? yes or no? i love democracy. i don t want to see it bring the muslim brotherhood to pow per . so you only like democracy with wr your guys win? soo i m looking out for the interest of the united states. and having the muslim brotherhood in control of the suez ka nappal. so you don t like the democracy if it brings in the muslim brotherhood and group that you don t like. if it brings in hamas, then i don t like that. so you don t really believe in democracy. you like puppets. i like it when it produces democracy. the leaders you like. if it s not a democracy, if you get in a muslim brotherhood group they voted for them. it s not your elx. they don t get to vote them out. muslim brotherhood would not win in egypt. they only poll at 15%. do you disagree with that? i disagree with when it s a circumstance like this. because the most ruthless, the most disciplined, the most organized people tend to win in this kind of circumstance. i m afraid the brotherhood will come in shortly how would they control the military? that s the wild card. they re not in the military. how would they win in a democracy with only 15%? they had 15% when they were being suppressed by the mubarak regime. the polls as you probably 2340e suggest that the egyptian people are overwhelmingly in favor of sharia law. that s nonsense. no, christians supply christian law, muslims apply muslim law in egypt. everywhere else it s totally secular. do you know how many murders there are in america, are you blames the u.s. government for those murders? the law in egypt is secular and you know it. the law in actually, the law in egypt is shariaed a heerpt a adherent and it s not true. that s just not true. check out their constitution. i have checked it out plenty. i hope you do, too. we ll show you why john boehner doesn t want to take on the birthers. and this south carolina state senator is worried about the federal reserve. wait till you hear his plan. crazy doesn t begin to describe it. 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[ female announcer ] with aarp you get so much more out of life. call now to get the latest issue of our award-winning magazine absolutely free and discover the best of what s next. once again, republican leaders are proving that they just can t stand up to the fringe elements of their own party. this time, the man who won t take them on is house speaker john boehner. on msnbc s meet the press david gregory asked him about the right wing smear campaign against barack obama that questions his birthplace and religion. take a listen. as the speaker of the house, as a leader, do you not think it s your responsibility to stand up to that kind of ignoran ignorance? it s not my job to tell the american people what to think. our job in washington is to listen to the american people. having said that, the state of hawaii has said that he was born there. that s good enough for me. the president says he s a christian. i accept him at his word. but that kind of ig rabs about him being a muslim doesn t concern you? listen, the american people have a right to think what they think. it s not my job to tell them. obviously lly ignoring the question. if he says he s a christian i take him at his whord. come on, how obvious is that. about 41% of the self-described republicans question whether obama was born in the u.s. and ten states are looking at various former birth ir legislation right now. and about 30% of the republicans believe obama is a muslim, more than believe he s a christian. that s crazy. boehner can t call these people crazy, because they form a huge chunk of his voters. . he calls them nuts he ll have to admit he s running the asylum. this is why you won t hear the republican leaders denounce these guys. plus, stoking them gets them more and more votes. i m guessing he won t come out for the latest whacky proposal from one senator. he wants the palmeo state to move away from the dollar and establish its very own currency. he warns the federal reserve system could break down, causing people to lose faith in the dollar. i have my own concerns about the fed. i got that. but this is the no the direction i would go. he says south carolina will need a backup plan if the fed go ez down. so he introduced a legislation, calling for the subcommittee to study the matter. as one state democrat pointed out, no word yet on whether that subcommittee would be funded in dollars or gold or fer r faiair. last year, he helped pass a state bill that took aim at part of obama s health care law. he said it was a victory for state s rights. he said if at first you don t secede, try again. conservatives turned on each other over the weekend. it s ron paul versus the entire party. and he won. a libertarian ron paul supporter tells us why they re fighting the rest of the gop next. mama said there d be days like this there ll be days like this, mama said mama said, mama said mama said, there ll be days like this [ male announcer ] the toughest job on the planet just got a little easier. with one-touch technology and even an air scrubber. the all-new nissan quest. innovation for family. innovation for all. until the combination of three good probiotics in phillips colon health defended against the bad gas, diarrhea and constipation. .and? it helped balance her colon. oh, now that s the best part. i love your work. 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[ screaming ] thank you. that s what i was waiting for. and the cpac crowd was also divided on substantive issues as well. and of course they did not voice their disagreements politely. some of them even turned on their one-time hero dick cheney, booing him when they came out to give rumsfeld the defender of the constitution award. all right, sit down and shut up. war criminal! liberator! all right, now we re having fun. that s republicans yelling war criminal at dick cheney. and him telling them to shut up. sounds like it was a load of fun. now, ron paul supporters also took out their anger on an interesting guy, donald trump. by the way, ron paul cannot get elected, i m sorry to tell you. [ booing ] . [ cheering ] sorry. the straw poll results were announced, boos from the anti-paul crowd were mixed in with the cheers. when you ve got a room full of angry people, it s only a matter of teem before they get angry at each other. but i actually think this is a good thing about the republican party. why? because agree or disagree with their position, the ron paul people are genuine and they re asking an important question, what does it mean to be a conservative? joining me is matt welch from the libertarian magazine the reason to talk about that and what happened at cpac. first, how big is the ron paul faction? is it i know he won the straw poll and he got 30% of the vote, but is it 30% and that s it? or are there others who are sympathetic to it? is it likely to become a majority at some point? every time we try to assess or limit the impact of ron paul, he kind of exceeds expectations. and that includes these of us who share, you know, a good swath of his politics. now know, for the entire year of 2007 on the republican side, the favorite consensus favorite was rudolph giuliani. and ron paul didn t even show up on the radar screen. yet he ended up showing up in fourth place back then. since then, his message has only gotten stronger out there in the culture. he s chair of the subcommittee look into the federal reserve, for crying out loud. people are wanting to audit the fed on the left and right. i don t know if it s majority at this point. i don t think anyone on the republican side of the aisle is anywhere close to a plurality. it s a real contested field right now, and libertarians are in the mix, in the middle of it all duking it out and trying to reorient the party towards limiting the size of goth which is what republicans were supposed to be about you can but totally forgot for more than a decade. ron paul is about 30%. sarah palin came in ninth at 3%. but is the con sen here or maybe it s not. that s why i m asking you, is the concern the rest of the republicans are just doing the bidding of the lob gi byists and the corporate guys and they re not being real conservatives? is that have really taking hold of the republican party or not yet? they explicitly repudiated libertarianism by name. they thought that was mean and nasty wing of republicanism and they also found, to their benefit personally that if they were going to do business with various interest groups it would be helpful to be more of big government conservatism to use a david brooks phrase. that was successful in the short term, but it went against a sizable minority, at least, or strain within the american politics. i think all of the juice in american politics since about the fall of 2008 has been with people who were against the wall street bailout, against bailout economics, perpetually. and so that enthusiasm has been looking for a place to go. and it s astonishing to me that the republican participant is still very slow to realize that. and capitalize on that in a real way. that i ear not slow. what it is, matt, they get paid by the lobbyists. they get it, but they re not interested. do you pay my paycheck? no, but the lobbyists do. i have interest with ron paul, too. i want to run a clip of him at cpac and get your reaction. let s watch. what if i could offer you and say look, we re not doing a good job in government these days. we make promises and we don t know about the future. but would you consider opting out of the whole system under one condition you pay 10% of your income, but you take care of yourself. don t ask the government for anything? matt, that plays well. but you re not going to ask the government for cop whence you re getting mugged? you re not going to ask for roads when you drive on? does that cost more than 10% of our money? ron paul offers the most radical version of libertarianism. he s using this as a way to startle people out of their complacency. hey, why don t we cut agriculture subsidies or ethanol subsidies or harmful programs that we have that s much more harmful in scale and scope than what he s talking about. he s reminding people republicans and democrats as like. there s an untapped constituency of people who are not in favor of perpetual war, of spending haft h half of the world s money on defense and all of these kinds of a rigparitions of conservatism. and he s building an audience that exceeds everyone s expectations. and that s why i m so excited. look, the guy can achieve on real bipartisanship. he talked about cutting the useless waste and spending, whether it s ethanol subsidies or defense, we totally agree. it s a fascinating phenomenon. thanks for coming on tonight to talk about it. thanks for having me. how would you like to make mistakes at work and get promoted? that s what s .haing inside the cia. abuse and then promotions. we ll discuss that next. and it can do this, here. and it can also do this, here. just imagine what it can do, here. 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[ male announcer ] ducati knows it s better for xerox to manage their global publications. so they can focus on building amazing bikes. with xerox, you re ready for real business. what happens when people make mistakes, even deadly mistakes at the cia? unfortunately, they get promoted. details from a shocking investigation about our government. that s coming up next. four decadent flavors. 60 calories. it s me o clock time for jell-o. four decadent flavors. 60 calories. but you can still refinance to a fixed rate as low as 4.5% at lendingtree.com, where customers save an average of $293 a month. call lendingtree today. an explosive new report from the associated press exposes the kra cia s accountability process, or as it turns out, the lack thereof. an investigation revealed a number of cia officers who made serious mistake, resulting in wrongful imprisonment or even death were not held accountable. for example, the face of khal khalid el mf masri. he was taken and interrogated. the only crime he committed was that he had the same name as an al qaeda member. it took five months for them to realize their mistake. and he said he faced brutal interrogations. and the person who messed up wasn t even reprimanded. matt, tell us what happened to frances, the analyst we were just talking about? well, she was recommended for discipline after this all fell apart. after el-masri was released. there was an review board, an inspector general. and rhe and the review board said well, she had information that she was the wrong guy and the review board recommended her for discipline. it always recommended a lawyer in the counterterrorism center for discipline, and what happened was when those recommend dalgs ations got up t seventh floor and said well, two people took a mistake, we ll discipline the lawyer, but we don t want to discipline the analyst because we don t want to discourage risk taking or initiative in the ranks. she didn t take any risks. the guy got tortured. not her. it made it seem like oh, she put her life on the line. no. and people told her over and over again, this isn t the right guy. she said no, keep him there, keep him there, keep him there. and she gets a proportimotion f. tell us about steve, another analyst. he was an officer at abu ghraib who was disciplined for not process iing a prisoner ghost prisoner into abu ghraib correctly. and that decision delayed medical care for an inmate who turned out to be dead within an hour. he was disciplined and was allowed to stay on at the agency until retirement and is actually now back at the cia as a contractor. and i want to make a point about a number of these things. there s a balancing act between spying is hard work. and you you do want people to take risks. that s one of the big problems of pre-9/11. people weren t taking risks. you want them to take risks. you don t want to discipline people because when they take risks and they put themselves out there, it goes wrong. that s the tension we saw over and over again. you know, the analysts, the counterterrorism able lists who pushed the el-masri rendition, there was a lot of discussion, do we really want to discipline her. or the next time there s a close call, are they going to say forget it, i just won t make the call. yeah, yeah, next time i don t want them tortured. that s right. and by the way, taking risks is going inside north pakistan and getting bin bladen. rp they even trying? yeah, let s rendition that guy, torture that guy. boy, i m taking a lot of risks. i have to go get a coffee. first of all, you can label it torture. we re not going there. and not for politically correct reasons. these are people trying to make the best decisions they can with the information they have. we weren t trying to show the cia is bungling. i hear you, man. there s no question. unfortunately we re out of time here thank you so much. it s a great report. thank you very much. vo: it s time for a phone. to save us from our phones. new windows phone. now for a limited time get a samsung focus for $99.99, at at&t. [ male announcer ] not all steel is created equal. not all manufacturing processes are created equal. not all engineering standards are created equal. which is why not all luxury vehicles are created equal. the hard way means never taking short cuts. the hard way is how lexus inspires absolute confidence. this is the pursuit of perfection. see what it takes at lexus.com/thehardway. now republicans and conservatives have been trying to figure out how to criticize president obama for what s happened in egypt. they can t quite if tig you re it out. this week, former minnesota governor tim pawlenty slammed president obama s handling of the situation in egypt. you had the president, the vice president, the secretary of state, the national intelligence director going off in different directions saying nearly incoherent things, at least inconsistent things. she asked him, what would you do? he had no answer, just blanket criticism. also, gingrich also criticized obama over egypt, saying obama was too public with his critiques over mubarak, which embarrassed the dictator. you do it quietly. if they see you publicly abandon someone who s been with him for