ever commit. the fact that -- there's no way -- >> i hope so. >> you can be the democratic nominee without having the african-american vote. ask bah iraqi obama and hillary clinton in 2008 and 16. i will also tell you whoever the next president will be will be because african americans voters showed up dore not show up. >> i totally agree with that. >> but to your point -- >> but during the primary, i think you can win the primary -- >> that's not mathematically possible to be a democratic nominee with having the -- without having the most loyal voter block in this party show up to vote for you. all you have to do is crunch the numbers. men and women lie, numbers do not. that's been proven election after election. >> if it were binary you'd be correct, that is one -- the african americans all voted for one candidate and not the other. the problem is you have all these candidates and votes get split. i'm saying it's possible. i'm saying it's not a great strategy, which is why my