adviser, the chief of staff of the white house, the secretary of energy. i don't know how that's irregular. if a bunch of folks that are not in that channel are aggrieved for some reason for not being included, i don't know how they can consider us to be the irregular channel and they be to the regular channel when it's the leadership that makes the decisions. >> ambassador mcfaul, the leadership of the country, the leadership of the country, president, vice president, national security adviser, secretary of state, the regular channel directing this pressure campaign against ukraine. >> yeah, i thought that was very powerful and very damning for the president of the united states and, remember, rudy giuliani is the president's personal lawyer so he is as close as he can get to the president and i thought it was the right tactic if i were ambassador sondland. i kind of expected it from ambassador volker yesterday and chose to equivocate and say, oh, it was off on the side and this