reached a point where it has all the military capability it would want and need. russia, though, is very close. if it wanted to launch a massive invasion against ukraine. look, these two countries have two things in common. one is their fundamental illiberalism. they are authoritarian, and they want a really different world order. the kinds of things we're pushing, democracy, human rights, don't happen. then they are in a position -- to get to this opening thing mika talked about -- they each could benefit from a crisis in the other's backyard. one of the things the biden administration has to think about is not simply how we deter a crisis in each of these two areas but also how we prepare for both simultaneously. i don't think it is possible to rule out a kind of tactical exploitation by russia or china if there is a crisis elsewhere in the world. >> well, david ignatius, that's