is going to define him, even if he were to win re-election next year, which is something we should of course not count out. that's something that could still happen. but this is now -- as i think one of your later guests jon meacham put it, this is now part of, when i spoke to him today, this is part of his entry in the history books. he has been impeached and nothing can ever change that. >> mara gay, a couple things to note with you. number one the michigan history of your family and how we've seen the memory of john dingell soiled tonight, something we never thought we'd see. but also a mixed metaphor alert. what happens when the impeachment aura runs into the trump wall and seeps into the nation's bloodstream? i guess that's an unknowable at this early date. >> it is a momentous day. it does cut through all the noise. and it has me thinking about a few things. one is that i think for a majority of americans who didn't vote for this president and who really have serious concerns about hum nhim now, it was