the law. this to me is the key thing. no matter who, daniel, no matter who runs for president on the republican side in 2024, that's the thing that we should be paying attention to. >> absolutely. i mean, one of the things because we focus on our history in the 1930s, that's the model in our mind, military coups in latin america in the '60s and '70s. we think that's how democracies die. what's apparent is democracies often die at the ballot box. politicians use the very instruments of democracy both to come to office, sometimes illicitly but then once in office consolidate power through legal means, packing the courts, manipulating election administration, tilting the playing field in elections. it becomes harder and harder for them to lose. at the end of the day if you can't vote out an incumbent, then you can't have a democracy. though our elections work just barely, we have to look forward