gerrymander? do the legislatures have to figure out a strategy to make it work just right? >> you know, it is a really precise way that you do it. basically what you do in the south, and this is why voting rights advocates are so worried about the south, is the way you gerrymander in the south is crack and pack minorities into different districts which means you put them all in a district and them separate them out so you have a majority white district. it is dluts the political power of the people that live there, but i guess you can out gerrymander but these guys are really good at it. there's whole legislative staffs that are good at it. i watched the process, they move one district to the left, one street to that district. it is incredibly precise. i don't know if you can out do it. >> i told you, jane timm educates us so much. thank you. derailing president biden's agenda, congressman from michigan debbie dingell joins me