Blumenthal and congresswoman Maxine Waters. And how we ended up in the crisis with democracy. Thats enough, put down the mic. When all in starts right now. Good evening from new york, im chris hayes. We have now entered a dramatic new chapter in the story of the presidency of donald trump. Two absolutely huge developments tonight, first, there will soon finally be a check on the power of this preponderate, a decisive electoral victory, a party reclaiming real power after two years in the political wilderness. Then today the president immediately moving the nation towards constitutional crisis by firing his attorney general in what appears to be the first step in an effort to kill or throttle the Mueller Investigation into him and his associates. At this hour democrats have already gained 28 seats in the house, four more than they needed to control the chamber. It could potentially go as high as 42 seats when they take power in january. Overall last night it was a dramatic national repudiation of donald trump. So far Democratic Candidates have received more than 6 million more votes than republican candidates with several million more to count, a lot of those in california. And they have won even more house seats, far more if it were not for gop gerrymandering. Today an aggressive and resentful president gave a postelection press conference in which he insisted all of this was actually a tremendous, unambiguous victory. He also sought to threaten House Democrats into foregoing their constitutional duty of conducting oversight of his administration. Youre saying that no, not at all. If they start investigating you, that you can play that game and investigate them. Better than them. Can you compartmentalize i think i know more than they know. Can you continue to work with them for the benefit of the rest of the country, or are all bets off . No, if they do that, all it is is a warlike posture. Warlike posture. Shortly after that press conference, the president fired the first missile in that war, announcing on twitter he was firing his attorney general Jeff Sessions who trump has never forgiven for recusing himself in oversight of the russia investigation. Now, the normal line of succession would be for the number two at the Justice Department, the Deputy Attorney general Rod Rosenstein, who is protecting the Mueller Probe, to now serve as interim ag. That is not what happened. Instead, in a potentially illegal move, its not quite clear, the president tapped a man he has long regarded as his eyes and ears inside a department he considers an enemy institution. That man is former u. S. Attorney Matt Whitaker, a failed gop political candidate and conservative activist who is practicing law in iowa until a little more than a year ago. Last year whitaker became a legal commentator on cable news where he argue for the limits on the Mueller Investigation into the trump campaign. If bob mueller and his small u. S. Attorneys office, as ive heard it described today, does go beyond the 2016 election and get into Trump Organization finances unrelated to the 2016 election, and really unrelated to Russian Coordination if it even exists, i think that would be crossing a red line. I think thats when that the Deputy Attorney general, whos the acting attorney general for the purposes of the investigation, Rod Rosenstein, who i served with in the bush administration, he needs to step in and pull the reins back on bob mueller if he goes outside of his bounds of delegation of authority. Two months after that he was installed he has the power to potentially fire mueller, greatly limit the scope of the investigation or potentially keep his finding from the public. And that move prompted representative jerry nadler, who will chair the house committee, to demand key officials preserve all relevant documents related to this action to make sure the investigation and any evidence remains safe from improper interference or destruction. This is the moment that people have been warning about, the moment when the president moves to effectively place himself above the law. Nobody right now knows what comes next. Joining me now for more on that, what all this means, msnbc legal analyst nick akerman who helped the prosecute watergate, and elliott williams, Deputy Assistant ag for legislative affairs for the department of justice under president obama. Let me start with you, elliott, first of all its not clear legally if the president has the power to do what he did today. I wouldnt even begin to try to lay out in the minutes that we have here the legal framework. You have a Senate Confirmed deputy with a removed attorney general where theres no number three installed at the Justice Department. Its a mess. The simple fact is there the appearance of impropriety, the appearance of a conflict, is there the appearance of an attempt to obstruct justice . That seems abundantly clear right now, given an hour before the announcement of the resignation, the president was at a press conference saying i can fire all these people and shut this down right now. Theyre not even hiding their attempt to want to get in the way of this investigation and ultimately obstruct justice. Its flagrant, more than anything else. More importantly its an assault on the independence of the Justice Department. An assault on the very notion that when attorneys have conflicts they ought to recuse themselves and step out. And theyve they just sort of demonstrated a willingness to buck these norms of Legal Practice. Its really a shame whats happening to the Justice Department and the way theyre treating the administration of justice right now. So what is someone who is in archibald coxs office, how does he protect what he has found . He protects the evidence hes found and all of the reports hes put together. I mean, i know when we had when cox first appeared, october 20th, 1973, about a little over 45 years ago, he had a press conference that day where he basically took on the Nixon Administration for not providing the actual tapes of conversations that the court ordered. And so we had the feeling that day that he was going to be fired. And so what we did is we took the stuff with us, took reports out beforehand. Even when the fbi sealed off the office i had reports in my pants and my shirts. We took stuff out. Today its a lot easier. All they need to do is put this data onto a thumb drive and you probably can take the whole Mueller Investigation out in a few thumb drives. Im hoping theyre keeping this stuff safe and in a place where they can get it if something does happen. What do you think about the recusal question here . You just mentioned this elliott, its a cnn story two days ago the white house has been informed that whitaker would have to recuse from the russia investigation in light of past writings and tv appearances. What does have to recuse mean here . The question is, like says who, right . Look, its ultimately a judgment call as to whether there is a conflict. But nicks probably done this, ive had to do it and so on. Its not just whether theres a conflict, its whether theres even the appearance of conflict because the Justice Department seeks to appear to you know, to not have conflicts. And so its abundantly clear to everybody here that this smelling fishy, even if its not legally required he recuse himself. Hes been out talking about this investigation and the need to shut it down. Hes been out talking about, you know, how much its cost and so on and hes a loyalist to the president of the United States who has expressed that he wishes to shut the investigation down. If thats not even the appearance of a conflict then i dont really know what it is. And again it just gets back to the point i was making earlier, this is so central to the basic principle of Legal Practice and the basic of legal ethics more than anything else. Theyre flying in the face of it right now. And the rules seem to not apply anymore. Our department of justice should be run by somebody who is fair and impartial, who doesnt have an ax to grind, has no preconceived notion, hes taking justice is supposed to be blind, youre supposed to look at facts impartially, without prejudice and fear and make a decision. The problem here is you have somebody now who is effectively our attorney general who has already made up his mind on what the Mueller Investigation is about. Chris, i would even question whether any political appointee in this administration at this point can oversee this investigation given how out there the president and now his new attorney general have been. Its abundantly clear. Im not clear he can be installed in this position. Theres intersection of department of justice directives and vacancies reform act. Its not that clear to me you can make a guy chief of staff who is not Senate Confirmed the attorney general of the United States because you clearly have a corrupt intent to use that position to shut down an investigation. Absolutely correct. Im sorry. Yeah, you have a deputy there in place. Even if the statute didnt say it, its common sense that when you have, you know, a boss and a vice boss, or whatever, the number two ascends to the role in the absence of the individual. Theres a statute that lays it out. Exactly. Thats what happened to the saturday night massacre, they went down the chain of command. Elliott richardson, the attorney general. He didnt say heres some guy i saw on tv that i liked. I think he should run the department of justice. By pecking order set out in statute and it should have been Rod Rosenstein, Deputy Attorney general, hes the number two man in the department of justice. That tells you everything you need to know. Thank you both for being with me. Im joined by democratic senator Richard Blumenthal of connecticut, a member of the Judiciary Committee. Is this the power play it appears to be in your mind . It is a break the glass moment, an attack on our democracy, and it should precipitate exactly the fire storm we saw in the wake of the saturday night massacre under richard nixon. Its a slow motion saturday night massacre. The reason theyre doing it in this slow motion way is to avoid that jouproar and uprising that think now my republican colleagues have an obligation to show. So first point, he must recuse himself. Whitaker has not only demonstrated hostility to this investigation, hes also provided a road map for strangling the funds necessary for it. Ultimately the congress has the power of the purse and the democratic victories just last night demonstrate that the American Public wants checks on this kind of abuse and overreach. So my democratic colleagues and i on the Senate Judiciary committee and on the house Judiciary Committee should press for an investigation and for legislation. Im going to be proposing legislation that will stop the defunding or cuts in funding for the special counsel and also require a report. So all of those thumb drives that were referred to earlier are made public. Through a report prepared by the special counsel. Even better, indictments and charges brought by the special counsel which he may be on the verge of doing. I want to play for you what the Chuck Schumer who, of course, is the minority leader in the senate had to say on this today. Take a listen. We would hope, if theres a constitutional crisis, that our republican colleagues would join us in thwarting the president from creating that crisis. Well see. I just want to say there are people watching that clip and they are screaming at the television, have you not been paying attention for the last two years . And they are right to be screaming at the television, and theyre right to be screaming at our republican colleagues. They have a constitutional duty, which they have been avoiding. They have been succumbing to the apparent political advantage of avoiding this crisis. But theres a reason that the president waited until after the midterms to fire this attorney general. He knew how deeply unpopular it would be. Right. And my republican colleagues have to recognize they are going down a very, very dangerous path here. Well, what do you mean by that . Well, they are embarked on a policy of undermining the rule of law, thwarting the will of the American People. The American People want this investigation to be completed fairly and fully. And the special counsel is just finishing a kind of quiet period, which everyone expected before the midterms. There are reports and reasons to believe that he may be on the verge of indicting some of the president s closest associates, maybe even members of his family, so those indictments will speak louder than any of our words. And i think that the special counsel has always been one step ahead of the rest of us. He has prepared for this moment. It is a break the glass moment and im hoping that all of my colleagues will rise to the occasion. All right, senator Richard Blumenthal, thank you for being with me tonight. Thank you. Coming up, the trump loyalist and political operative, donald trump installed to oversee the Mueller Probe, what you need to know about your new acting attorney general, Matt Whitaker, next. Executive transport manager, and a beverage distribution supervisor. 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Senate and lost the race, worked on iowa state treasurer campaign of the one and only sam clovis, a person interviewed in the Mueller Investigation. Why would he be the west wings eyes and years according to the New York Times . He sees the Mueller Probe as a lunch mob perhaps. As a cnn commentator said if mueller kept looking into trumps fans finances it would raise serious concerns, a mere witch hunt. Jeff sessions is replaced with a recess appointment and that attorney general doesnt fire bob mueller but he just reduces the budget so low that his investigation grinds to a almost a halt. The fuller implications, julie ainsley, Nbc News National Security and justice reporter and natasha bertrand. Julia, i cant imagine how this is landing at justice. Thats a great question, chris. Weve called around to a lot of people. There today. There wasnt too much surprise that the attorney general would be out. They knew he was probably short lived there, especially after midterms. It was quite abrupt, you know, less than 24 hours after the results were in last night. Theres a lot of talk about Matt Whitaker and what it means that he is the acting attorney general rather than following the normal line of secession which would appoint Rod Rosenstein, the Deputy Attorney general who has a lot more experience than Matt Whitaker in these issues, been there longer, been part of the daytoday. From what i understand Rod Rosenstein has also been someone who the white house has gone to other agencies have had to go to get things done at the Justice Department for some time. Hes more than just a number two there. He really takes over a lot of daytoday operations and does more in a lot of cases than Jeff Sessions. So to really pull the rug out under him, not just on the Mueller Probe, but on other things, and hand it over to someone that so clearly has this political position has a lot of people who are these career servers at the Justice Department, career lawyers who are already worried about theo there is an idea here, a Silver Lining that shes short lived. He doesnt seem like someone who could be confirmed by the senate. No. That doesnt mean he cant do a lot of damage to the Mueller Investigation in that short period of time. Thats the question, natasha. Again, this looks to all the world like a loyalist who only has his job because hes a loyalist, whose paper trail on twitter and elsewhere is a mile long about talking about squeezing the Mueller Investigation, about it being a witch hunt if it crosses over into finances. What happens now . What does your reporting say it triggers in terms of what happens with rosenstein and mueller and the investigation . Well, whitaker is now muellers boss, right, so he oversees the entirety of the Mueller Investigation at this point. So if mueller went to him and said, hey, i want to indict this person or said, hey, i need more funds to do this, or, you know, whatever it may be that mueller wants to take a next step on whitaker could feasibly say no. The caveat there is that if whitaker were to deny any requests by mueller then it would require mueller to go to congress, and essentially disclose that this has been denied. So there is a check built in there, which is, you know its definitely comforting. Its comforting for people who worry that this political loyalist, exactly what he is, a loyalist to the core, to oversee the investigation. Its premature, well have to wait and see whether or not he is nominated by the president to fill this position on a fulltime basis. He might be, you know, playing his cards close to his chest at this point, you know, leaving aside all of the things weve already seen written by him about the Mueller Investigation so that he does stay in this position where he could receive a Senate Confirmation if he proves hes not meddling on the russia investigation. Its important to underline the fact that he has been seen by the west wing as the eyes and ears of the Justice Department. That speaks volumes, this is someone who made his way in his career based entirely on his political connections. He was not even an assistant u. S. Attorney before he was appointed u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of iowa by george w. Bush in 2004. Entirely because of political connections. Hes known as a mover and a shaker and people in the Justice Department say that he now has managed to ingratiate himself into the Trump White House where it doesnt matter if he has the experience necessary. He is uniquely now positioned in a way that trump has wanted this loyalist in the Justice Department. Now hes the one thats ready to serve that up. Let me show, theres a law professor, julia, i think from iowa who posted this on twitter, which im sort of reeling at. It kind of makes perfect sense. Whitaker told me in june 2017 he was flying out to be on cnn regularly because he was hoping to be noticed as a trump defender and to get a trump judicial appointment back in iowa. Heres this guy ive got to get back in the game, im going to go on cnn and talk about heres the kinds of things he said on cnn. This is him in july 2017, defending don jr. For taking a meeting whose explicit purpose was for a Foreign Government to give them dirt on their political opponent. Take a listen. To suggest theres a conspiracy here, you would always take that meeting. If you have somebody that you trust that is saying you need to meet with this individual because they have information about your opponent, you would take that meeting. That was an audition and it worked. Thats right, chris. We know that that is a good way to audition for this president. We saw jay sekulow the president s attorney do the same thing. A lot of people know they can get in front of this president by going on cable news because he watches a lot of it. In this case what hes showing hes a loyalist, he knows thats something that appeals to this president , particularly at the jus it department where trump has had such a hard time finding those loyalists. Where it could be a real problem, natasha is right, theres a lot of checks and balances about things he could block that could then get red flagged. What night not get red flagged is his ability or ease to hand over documents, so far Rod Rosenstein has said these documents are crucial, that they stay classified and not be handed over to congress or to the president to try to undermine the Mueller Investigation, people who sign these documents, they should remain confidential and to have someone in a position who not only doesnt have that backbone to stand up to the president but who might actually be looking for more of those documents that could be problematic. Julia ainsley and natasha bertrand, thank you both very much. A move that could endanger the investigation, congresswoman Maxine Waters on the firing of Jeff Sessions and the big democratic win last night. Ready to juvederm it . Correct agerelated volume loss in cheeks with Juvederm Voluma xc, add fullness to lips with juvederm ultra xc and smooth moderate to severe lines around the nose and mouth with juvederm xc. 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Joining me now, congresswoman Maxine Waters, slated to become the chair of the House Financial Services committee. First question to you is, you have been a very vocal critic of Jeff Sessions, extremely vocal, said he should resign, dont like what hes done at the Justice Department, your reaction to his firing today . Well, you know, this action by the president of the United States to fire him is directly connected to the investigation that is being led by mueller. This president is interested in undermining that investigation. Stopping that investigation. He has threatened to fire him. Of course many of us have been opposed to Jeff Sessions for a lot of reasons. His racist background, et cetera, et cetera. But this president is focus on him and firing him literally because i think hes putting into action the plan by which to stop the investigation by putting whitaker in as the acting attorney general. So were talking about a difference situation here. But this is very dangerous. Nancy pelosi spoke about it today. For those of us who were willing to see what could be done, to work with this president now that we have the majority in the house, this is very disappointing. For all of the people out there in america who say to us, well, try and work with him, we want, you know, both sides to get together, here he starts off one day after the midterm election, showing us what he thinks about working with us when its apparent that what hes putting into action is a plan by which to get rid of mueller. How do you work with someone like this . Well, i want to play you something he said today specifically on this question about oversight and whether oversight would be related to any kind of bipartisan work between the House Democrats and himself, take a listen. Are you offering a my way or highway scenario to the democrats . Youre saying that negotiation not at all. If they start investigating you that you can play that game and investigate them. Oh yeah, better than them. Can you compartmentalize that i think i know more than they know. Can you continue to work with them for the benefit of the rest of the country. No. Or are all bets off . No. If they do that, all it is is a warlike posture. Phrase mean to you someone whos about to be a chair and member of house leadership . What does warlike posture mean to you, congresswoman . Well, let me just say this. I have always maintained that donald trump would never be president ial. I am not really shocked or surprised by anything that he may say or do. He has been absolutely outrageous in the way that he has called names, outrageous in the way that he has threatened, outrageous in the way that hes promoting himself all the time. He wants to act like a dictator and so here we are, we find ourselves at a point in time where there are a lot of people who really believed that we could work together. So now hes talking about investigating those who would in any way be involved in an investigation that is ongoing. That has been under way with special counsel, who has been given the mandate to get it done. So i think what were seeing is a continuation of a president who likes the authority, the ability, the wherewithal to have an appreciation for the constitution, for a way that the protocol dictates that we work, et cetera, et cetera. Let me ask you this. Yes. Youre part of house leadership. Has there been meetings among house leadership, among the Committee Chairs today, about what to do now . I mean, what is the strategy . Is there a unified strategy, do you have meetings today, phone calls today . There will be ongoing meetings about this issue. We cannot help but develop a strategy. I have nothing i can share with you at this moment about that strategy given the unveiling of the firing of Jeff Sessions. But i guarantee you we really do have to get together and determine to have a unified approach to dealing with this issue. All right, congresswoman Maxine Waters, thank you so much for joining us. Youre so welcome. The dems take the house and donald trump is emboldened by the whittling down of the Republican Party, the party of trump, thats next. Fidelity is redefining value for investors. Introducing zero account fees for brokerage accounts. And zero minimums to open an account. We have Fidelity Mutual funds with zero minimum investment. And now only fidelity offers four zero Expense Ratio index funds directly to investors. Because when you invest with fidelity, all those zeros really add up. So maybe ill win saved by zero so maybe ill win then you might have a dcondition called dry mouth. . Biotene is clinically proven to soothe and moisturize a dry mouth. Plus, it freshens breath. Biotene. Immediate and long lasting dry mouth symptom relief. Donald trump is clearly feeling emboldened by the senate victories last night. As we enter the lame duck session before the new congress, the main constraints on the president will be fundamentally political ones. Knowing the gop is fully the party of trump what do those constrains look like now . Joining me is rick wilson and former senator Barbara Boxer of california. Rick, youre here, ill start with you. This is a key period, these two months. Uhhuh. And theres a temptation, i think, on the part of the white house to shoot the moon. Absolutely. What boxes them in, if anything . Theres zero restraint from the Republican Party, zero restraint from congress at all. Youre right, theyre going to shoot the moon, burn down the entire building before the adult supervision arrives in january. Theyre going to do everything they can, particularly to impede the Mueller Investigation and everything they can to block and tackle on everything against the corruption investigations of zinke and many others. Theres a lavish culture corruption in this white house. They know thats coming. Theyre going to try to mitigate the damage the president took. Its a fool easter ran fools errand. This is jeff flake and says Jeff Sessions did the right thing by recusing himself. He paid a heavy price for independence ever since. We owe him a debt of gratitude. The bill should be brought to the floor. The problem is jeff flake tweets are worth exactly what youre charged for them, do you see him or collins or corker or anyone doing anything proactive in this period . I really do. Because you do . Jeff sessions yes. Because Jeff Sessions still has some people who really care about him. Interesting. And to bring in and to bring in this new person who is nothing more than a kissup operative is such a slam, you know, at the whole institution that a lot of the senators still respect. So i think if people in this country stay engaged. And one of the good things, you know, about this presidency is, because of the trump so many got engaged on all sides, people dont like obstruction of justice as a general rule. Yeah. And i want to just say one quick thing if i could, we call it a point of personal privilege in the senate. Please. That is, thank you, america, for a blue wave in the house, for a blue wave on the governorships, and a little mini, i would call it, you know, red wave in the senate, but not as much as we could have seen. And also all the women who got elected. So anyway, i thought id say that because donald trump changed the subject so fast no one had two minutes to reflect. That is true. And of course part of the strategy, and well talk in the next segment more about what happened last night. But there is a relationship between the two. Sure. Which is politics do still exist. I mean, theres a sense sometimes that people think, well, nothing matters. But you look at, you know, aca repeal did not happen because people mobilized against it, politically unpopular, child separation is an explicit policy stopped. And they lost 37, 35, 34 Something Like that seats because the president s unpopular. As Richard Blumenthal said he didnt fire sessions three days ago because he knew it was politically unpopular. He is aware, sees the shadows on the wall at least that their political storms ahead, there are political problems ahead and that his actions have several times now in the last year gotten him into water he cant get out of easily. The child separation policy is one of the few times he lost total control of the narrative, post helsinki, lost control of the narrative. I think hes worried about that. I think he knows his future now is in some peril, because democrats are taking over congress, because he got blown out on a bunch of states he needs to win in 2020. You said this, calls now from protect mueller protest page calling for protests thursday at 5 00 p. M. Local time, move on to a bunch of coalition of organizations are calling for that. How important do you think it is to sort of civic involvement, Civil Society to show up in these moments . It is so critical. And the fact is, people many for the first time are totally engaged. They brought about a change in the house. And by the way, i dont think trump really gets it. He can do all he wants to try and cover everything up. And any kind of conspiracy with the russians, or any kind of, you know, activity that is illegal, but now with a new congress, and i mean by that the house, and i served in the house for ten years, the oversight responsibility is what you have to do. And so no matter what he tries to do to say to mueller, sorry, youre out, and he might well do that, and people will rise up about it, all of that work is going to come forward. It is going to come forward because the republicans did something. When they were in charge of it they said it doesnt take bipartisanship to issue a subpoena. Yup. So the democrats can do it without the republicans. And guess what . The materials will come forward. The truth will out. It will. Do you think the politics of the house, when it does take control, how do you think the politics of that play out as that fight obviously is going to escalate very quickly . Well, look, what trump has to be thinking about, and republicans that remain in the house have to be thinking about is 2020. In 1974, we had a blowout, a 49 republicans in the house and eight in the senate, because they were assumed to be or believed to be part of the corrupt scheme of president nixon. These guys recognize right now they got blown out, the ones this year because of Donald Trumps affect. This is edging much closer to donald trump engaging in obstruction of criminality. If thats the perception of the Republican Party were down to a much smaller minority in the house quickly. Rick wilson and senator Barbara Boxer, thank you both for joining me. Coming up the biggest Election Night headlines, the trump loyalist voted out, the White Nationalist still in office, the face of the new Democratic Coalition next. Thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory. The secret is an ingredient originally discovered. In jellyfish. In clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. Whoa the mercedesbenz winter event is back and you wont want to stop for anything else. [ barks ] ho lease the gla 250 for 359 a month at your local mercedesbenz dealer. Mercedesbenz. The best or nothing. There was a lot of news today, all of which i was processing on about three hours of sleep. But there was also an election last night with notable republican defeats we didnt get a chance to talk about earlier in the show. Kris kobach, perhaps the most antiimmigrant politician short of the president lost the Gubernatorial Race in kansas. Wisconsin Governor Scott walker lost his bid for a third term. Congressman john faso ran a racist campaign in new york, and lost. Incumbent dean heller lost in nevada. David brat who once beat eric canter and shocked the world is out of office. Pete sessions also lost his seat, and dan donovan, republican congressman of Staten Island on the show a number of times, also defeated. Some embattled republicans victorious last night. White nationalist steve king, and two republicans under indictment, one reelection, Chris Collins in new york, charged with securities fraud, and Duncan Hunter accused of spending more than a quarter of a Million Dollars on campaign money. Greg gianforte, the montana congressman who once body slammed a reporter and then lied about it kept his seat. Good news for democrats in the house too, alexandria ocasiocortez. Deb haaland became one of the first nativeamerican women elected to congress, and Sharice Davids in kansas the other. Rashi rashida tlaib, ayanna presley. Antonio delgado, disgusting campaign against him to win a seat in congress. Incoming democrats are a striking change from the republicans they beat. The only way that kind of change can happen is if people can and do vote. When we come back, what should be the Biggest Issue for democrats for years to come . Getting those votes to count. Thats next. 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That would be great. That okay with you, jake . Get a portfolio that works for you now and as your needs change from Td Ameritrade investment management. The two big stories of last night are record turnout, and example after example of an electoral system designed to make it harder for people to vote. Voter i. D. Laws, broken machines, registration problems and long lines, including in georgia, where the states republican secretary of state oversaw his own election. As secretary of state brian kemps office has purged over a million voters from the states rolls, and just last month, put over 50,000 voter registrations on hold. His race for governor is now separated by just over 60,000 votes. Kemps campaign has declared victory, but Stacey Abrams is not conceding, vowing to stay in until every rote is counted. Voter suppression is an issue that comes up every election, and democrats are outraged, and then off, they go back to policy issues they want to focus on. But if democrats want longterm political viability, they must invest Political Capital in making and ensuring the people have the right to vote and easy access to ballots. Joining me now is Michelle Goldberg and adam. You wrote about this in the case of texas, which has put all sorts of hurdles in place where you recently registered to vote. It strikes me that what were seeing in georgia and texas has to be almost a priority, like front and center, for democratic politicians as a means of ensuring democratic viability. Well, it has to be prioritized by democrats, because its increasingly a crucial part of the republican strategy for maintaining political power. Their constituency is shrinking, and the way that theyre going to keep winning elections is not by being the majority, but by ensuring that the rules of the elections favor their constituencies, so that they can win a majority even when they dont have one. So i think the only way that democrats are going to be able to win elections is if they counter that by ensuring their constituencies have as much a right to vote as republican constituencies. There are three things that happened last night in that direction. Of course, theres amendment four in florida, 1. 5 people with felony convictions now enfranchised who were disenfranchised. And nevada and michigan also approving automatic voter registration. This seems to be part of a wave of a sort of states take thing seriously. Right. And i think that one of the less noticed but more important developments is that progressives are taking state politics really seriously, in a way they didnt during the obama administration. So we want a substantial way recapturing a third of the state legislative seats 333 out of the over 900 lost. Once you recapture that, you can recapture control of election rules. But right now, you have so many egregious violations. I mean, brian kevin is doing everything he can to try to shut down both transparency about even how many votes are still outstanding in his race, about Stacey Abrams. Her campaign doesnt even know how many votes there are out there. The news today that the clerk reported that number just to him . Right. And kind of giving her some numbers, but wont give them any sort of data or information about where the numbers are coming from. So in wisconsin, you have a situation not unlike one we saw before in North Carolina where we have a democratic governor who finally unseated scott walker. Some republicans in the legislature are saying theyre going to move to curtail his powers in the lame duck session. I think the story of our time is republican minor rule in a Republican Party thats given up on democracy, and the challenge of our time is for democrats to rebuild democracy. What do you think of that, adam . I think thats exactly right. Look, the 15th amendment of the constitution refers to the right to vote and the fact is, what we have right now is a government uninterested in protecting that right. The Justice Department under jeff session hasnt filed a single Voting Rights case since he took office. Not one . Not a single one. And the Republican Party is simply, as michelle said, increasingly reliant on the minority of the electorate that is 2krib89ed is distributed in a way that they can maintain majority of the government when they dont have majority of the support of the population of the United States. You have written about this, adam has written about this. Election night 2016, Hillary Clinton wins by 3 million votes, donald trump is elected president. The house margin will be between 6 million and 7 million votes probably. More democrats and more democrats voted for democratic more people voted for Democratic Senators than republican senators. Although thats complicated. I know, but even without california, you see kind of the hugely disproportionate power of a state like north dakota where you are talking about 10,000 voters that determines the makeup of the United States senate. And so this is going to be a problem. I cant remember when the exact date is, but were heading towards a point where 70 of the country has 30 senators, and 30 of the country has 70 senators. As long as those two populations are polarized and at each others throats thats what is dangerous. If you get in a situation like where all these voters are in these states 30 of a kind of like white, rural, aging conservative minority, you know, sort of like controlling and refusing to cede shower or share power with 70 of the country, thats younger and more diverse and more urban, thats a recipe i dont know what happens. It strikes me that blue states that have unified democratic control need to put their money where their mouth is. I agree. The Voting System in new york is a disgreisace. Theres no early voting. When a party has rules rigged to its advantage, it doesnt want to change them. Thats a real problem. Thats one of the reasons why one party rule in any area is bad, but in this case, what you dont see from democrats, though, is you dont see democrats deliberately targeting republican constituencies in such a manner as to restrict the electorate to their benefit. Thats something that has a long history in the United States of america. Once upon a time, it was democrats who were violently trying to restrict the electorate so republicans couldnt vote. But you see republicans trying to ensure that the electorate is older and whiter so they can continue winning elections, even though the majority of the people in a given state dont actually support what theyre doing. Part of the way they do that is they run on white identity politics. When you look at progressive initiatives, medicaid was expanded in three red states yesterday. Its not that americans dont like dont like those kinds of things. Its that okay. Ive got to cut you off there, adam. Thank you both for joining
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