I would have got back into the business and why should i lose lots of opportunities . The special counsels office learned about trumps director to lie to congress through interviews with multiple witnesses in the Trump Organization and internal company emails, Text Messages and a cash of other documents. The president s lawyer denied a buzzfeed story and now after declining the comment and not commenting on the story itself, the special counsels Office Issued a statement. Buzzfeeds description of specific statements to the special counsels office and character zagsz of documents and testimony obtained by this office regarding Michael Cohens congressional testimony are not accurate. We should note other reporting on this exact topic went uncorroborated for months until it showed up almost word for word in muellers court filings. So its hard to know whats true this time. There is already public evidence supporting the latest report. Michael cohens own lawyers claim that in the case of his false statements, the conduct was intended to benefit client one and in accordance with client ones directive. That central allegation that the president of the United States told cohen to live, maybe the clear cut of all the crimes this president has been accused. So much so that came up earlier this week in the conformation hearing for his nominee of attorney general as an example of an obvious crime. You wrote on page one a person persuading a person to commit perjury would be an obstruction. Is that right . They yes. Any person who persuades another you also said a president or any person convincing a witness to change testimony would be obstruction. Is that right . Yes. Now in the midst of the longest Government Shutdown in this country, a president accused of crimes while in office. Quote listen f mueller does have multiple sources confirming trump directed cohen to lie to congress, we need to know this asap. Its time to show us his cards before too late to act. And ken, the special counsels office basically never says anything about any story ever. Theyve made an exception here. What do you make of the . Its a Stunning Development and a really Bad Development for journalism i think and youre right its unprecedented. I cant rememberthem ever commenting on a news story about their work. My take is theyre not refuting in its entirety their story. Theyre not saying this isnt Michael Cohens testimony, that Michael Cohen said trump told him to lie and theres this line in the Michael Cohen sentencing mmo that were now realizing says explicitly that he lied to congress at the direction of client one and client one is was donald trump. So that part appears to be the case. Its cohens contention. The issue, as you pointed out rksz t , the thing that got people interested was that there was all this corroboration. And by the time mueller got to cohen, they already knew donald trump instructed him to lie. It wouldnt surprise me what they were about was in fact the trump tower moscow project. While not informing the American Public and that Michael Cohen lied to congress about the timing of that. But clear lly they got that par wrong and after all day, mueller decides to put out this statement after business hours. Do we know thats the part they got wrong . That is the line that the mueller statement refers to. Thats the line that discusses information gathered by muellers office. I see. Youre saying that paragraph, the one that lept out at everyone in that piece which is basically that they learned of cohen being instructed to do this after gathering this evidence, the documents text, emails, testimony, the special counsels reference is to that paragraph in the statement . I think so. I said this on the air today. That seemed surprise the notion they would be eemailing andtectsing and discussing a directive to lie to congress. It doesnt seem like the kind of thing you would put in writing and where were left is the idea of wondering whether there is corroboration in any form for Michael Cohens story that donald trump directed him to lie. Its a completely plausible story. Its what he was saying he was directed to make Illegal Campaign finance but the question is it corroborated . Because the house is not going to impeach donald trump on the word of a convicted liar. You made mngz mention of this but the significance of the time. Buzzfeed writes this story. This thing gets lawyered and edited and they go back to their sources. These reporteders hars have a g track record. They go to the special counsels office and say what should we do . Heres your space for comment. They get a no comment. The story publishes and 24 hours latter we get the statement. Thats a strange thats a weird fact pattern. And its very frustrating. The behavior of the special counsels office. They pride themselves on not saying anything. Theyre not helping people get right and not pointing it out when people get it wrong. All theyll tell you is 50 of the things written are wrong. How does that help anybody . I understand their issue. But the government finds a way to help reporters get right and Robert Muellers office is not doing that and this is the result. Thank you so much for making time here at the top as were rolling with this crazy news day. For more on the consequences of buzzfeeds reporting, just wreet brand new oped calling for impeachment proceedings to begin. First as someone who wrote the special counsel regulations. And i want to refer you back to what chris murphy said today. There is an increasing sense i think of urgency and democratic tension building about the nature of an inquiry being conducted in secret for in the midst of what is fundamentally a public matter of the utmost import that all of ous need to know about. Yeah. Thats obviously a problem with any criminal investigation. Its really important to have a criminal investigation because crimes were committed as mueller has himself shown by getting criminal convictions of michael flynn, the president S National Security advisor, the numero uno Campaign Chair and the like. But theres also this other public dimension youre foeng focusing on and this is where todays restraction of buzzfeed becomes so important. Were talking about a story in which the argument is of the piece is President Trump ordered muccal con to lie to congress, not to private investigators or federal investigators but to congress and i think that underscores underscores this is a political thing, about an offense that occurred if it occurred with congress and thats why you need congressional investigation and the mechanism is an impeachment inkwr ea. What we are saying is the accusations and so many other things it was a week ago the New York Times reported that trump was under investigation as a sitting president for being an asset of the fbi and the next day the Washington Post reporting all the stuff about the translator, Putin Meeting secretly with trump in the translator notes being soozed by trump the like. So all of those are the reasons why i think theres a public need for some sort of investigation that isnt just a Law Enforcement one. So the piece youve just published with general Michael Hayden basically says and other people have made similar arguments. Bob bauer, former white house counsel. Youre saying both of you are saying its time initiate the formal inquiry in the house to have some public fact finding undertaken . Exactly. And we come at this from very, very different perspectives. Hes a general. I was a solicitor general which is not a general. Its a lawyer. Whos far more conservative than i am. Were generationally different but on this single point which i think underscores what youre talking about, which is the publics need for some answers here. This is why i think congress has got to start this inquiry. Lets talk about the content of what is essentially alleged in this article. To ken delaneys point and the filing in his own sentencing memo that this is a thing cohen apoors says the president did. As for corroboration theres a bit of a question mark about that. This is from the barr memo and i know you object and the theory contained therein. When he talks about basically making the argument you cannot commit obstruction is basically to say lets just be clear if a president knowingly destroys or alters evidence or suborns perjury then he, libe anyone else, commits the crime of obstruction. Is that a consensus view . It is. Even when bill barr agrees with it, who has petty outlandish view of president immunity from criminal wrong doing, i think literally everyone agrees with it. Maybe giuliani. But anyone in the mainstream and the reason for that is simple, which is theres no princeful in a than no one is above the law. Hes written a memo that says he cant obstruct justice. So he fired comey, barr argus but the president can fire any executive Branch Employee so therefore no crime is committed. I have the righting to walk around and destroy my laptop anytime. I have the constitutional right to throw it in the river but i dont if the fbi is coming to seize it because it has dangerous information. But thats why this is so significant if the buzzfeed story has legs. And it may not but if it does, even barr agrees that is squarely a crime by the president of the United States. And whats the significance of that in the scheme of things . Because the president has already been names essentially individual one in a federal court filing in which he is nomed named as the person who directsed michael con to commit a felony. So thats already hanging out above us all. Whats the significance of this . Its big and different and about the president directly. Youve got arguments, well, the president s motives might be different. Maybe he was doing it because a family reasons, he wasnt doing it for campaign reasons. I dont think its a particularly good argument but its something out there. Its arguably lying about sex, which is different. The story yesterday, none of those defenses are available. Its a very serious felony to order someone to lie to congress. It is impactexactly what articl Section Three of the nixon impeachment was about. And Michael Cohen is going to jail for this very crime. So the anomaly of having the lackey go to prison but not the boss who orders it is pretty striking. Buzzfeed in response to the statement the special counsels office. We are continuing to report and determine what the special counsel is disputing. They published the dossier to begin with and they were sued by none other than Michael Cohen. So just keep that in the background of this. What would the so lets say we now have congress. You have congress saying were the victim s of the crime here. We deserve a right to know that if that knowledge is currently being held by the special counsels office and youre saying its time to start a formal inquiry. What does that mean . Its done with deference to the ongoing Law Enforcement investigation by mueller and by the Southern District of new york. Were certainly not advocating and i dont think anyone in congress would, some sort of investigation that tramples over the Law Enforcement ones. But to the extent you can start developing factual information, bring wngs witnesses before the committee to find out what happened. This dispute is example a of why you need this process to begin because these are offenses against the collegerengress and ultimately the American People. Thank you very much for oo make time tonight. For more on the implications of buzzfeeds story. Executive director of protect democracy. Cynthia, as someone whos worked in high stakes legal environments, lets start with your reaction to what we have presentd before us tonight which is the special counsels office speaking for the first time, though doing so after 24 hours of not speaking. What do you make of that . What i make of it is they dispute theres corroboration and there is no case if theres no corroboration. It may turn out theres corroboration. May turn out felix sader is corroboration. It may turn out theres lots of corroboration about the president and his children discussing this. Its a put the brakes on moment for everybody. Mueller hasnt spoken this whole time and now hes spoken quite clearly. Everybody should just take breath and just wait and see a little bit. Just let things settle down for a minute. There was a feeding frenzy today. Thats how sometimes when Congress Gets involved in investigations they mess things up. Oliver north and john poin dexer got off because things went wrong in the way investigation went in congress. If the president when hes acting as the president , not some preelection event, if when he is the president , he directed cohen to lie to congress, as it appears he did, lets not mess that up. Because it comes in the context of we know cohen lied and we know that president knew he lied because of what he lied about. So lets just slow down and get right. Thats a good point. Your thoughts. I think one thing were missing and this happens often with President Trump is look over here is that bill barr memo talking about what was clearly criminal wasnt just suborning perjury but intimidating a witness to lie. How did the president respond . He responded by trying to intimidate Michael Cohen saying watch his father in law. Hes like a russian of criminal activity. Where you open one, another appears, emphasis on russian. Lets not lose sight on the other thing happened today, which is also a serious offense. What im wrestling with the country is theres this secret Law Enforcement investigation that may or may not have explosive facts about either the culpability or excull puatory facts and this feeling here we are in a shutdown and they orbit around this thing that seems inert from a deep democratic standpoint. Our organization Dade Research paper on all of the independent investigations under the special counsel statute and regulations since watergate. If i ever have involved what the president knew orwas involved in. Four made surer there was a congressional investigation that went along with the special counsel one. The only one that didnt. Jummy carters peanut farm investigations. When the special prosecutor issued a public 180page report of his findings. Theres a kwquestion of whether theyll release the report, theres a precedent. And the reason for the hearings is the American People need be brought along to understand what happened. I remember my father talking about watching john dean testifying on television every day, slowly revealing the criminal activity of the president. Thats where they moved from place where there was hyperpartisanship to a place where they understood what understooded to happen. I agree with it in good time. Whats happened here is weve gotten over our skis. And i think we need to just slow down and make sure. We had all day this buzzfeed article which may very well be true. Theyve been right a lot of the time. But ewwe didnt have corroboratn from any of the other places. I would agree we have to bring the American People along, i would agree we need have hearings and theres a lot at stake besides just this. We also know that theres a real issue here about don jr. And what he testified to about this and there were really interesting questions the spence counsel asked the president about this, when did you discuss during the campaign this russian trump tower and who did you discuss it with . All these are out there and he responded to them before he knew cohen was cooperating. Theres so much with the special counsel and i want tago get to as bad as anyone but i want to make sure its done right. The subject of the duration of this deal based on the pleading of Michael Cohen about lying to congress, right and what the times eareported about the questions. That key question of how long were you engaged in the deal and why were you lying . Is obviously central here. And what was the rest of your relationship with the Russian Federation . This is the story from last week about counterintelligence investigation whether the president had inappropriate relations with the president. And you dont have to call them impeachment inquiries, but oversight. Because the special counsels office is looking for which the standard is proof beyond a reasonable doubt. But the standard which we can accept on behalf of a foreigned averse aerb, thats not beyond a reasonable doubt. The American People should be able to make that decision with information presented by the congress. Which is distinct. Thank you both very much. Almost a full day after the buzzfeed story dropped, the spence counsel is responding. Spence counsel is responding ways metal vibration therapy. At [heavy guitar lick] [glass shattering ] not cool. Freezing away fat cells with coolsculpting . Now thats cool coolsculpting safely freezes and removes fat cells with little or no downtime. And no surgery. Results and Patient Experience may vary. Some common side effects include temporary numbness, discomfort, and swelling. Ask your doctor if coolsculpting is right for you. And visit coolsculpting. Com today for your chance to win a free treatment. And i dont add trup the years. S. 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