Streets for nearly three weeks. I think you had protesters for different reasons, and then you had protesting also because, you know, they just didnt know. Ive watched i watched it very closely. Why are you here . And they really werent able to say. What we saw was a terrible thing, and weve seen it over the years. You know, this was one horrible example, but youve seen other terrible examples. We cant let Something Like this where you have a bad apple go out and, you know, destroy the image of millions of people that take really good care of us. And then you have a movement where they say, lets not have a police department. Our nbc news colleagues who cover the white house for us report that aides to the president are divided on how he should respond to the demonstrations 18 days in, that hes caught between those who want him to, quote, calm a country in the grips of a pandemic, economic uncertainty, and civil unrest, and those who want him to lean into aggressive tactics. The report indicates trumps unwillingness to come down on one side or the other. That has frustrated his allies, led to a slow, sometimes contradictory response. Quote, these arent my voters, the president has said repeatedly, dismissing protesters in discussions with aides about how to respond. One adviser said the president and his allies should be taking on the black lives Matter Movement by calling it a Front Organization for a lot of crazy leftist ideas that are unpopular. But another political ally said hes choosing not to set the agenda on policing and race in the u. S. When he should be leading on those issues by taking steps like banning tactics like choke holds. Trump has said he plans to issue some sort of executive order on standards for use of force. He appears to be zeroing in on choke holds and his own unique description of them. I i dont like choke holds. Now, i will say this. As somebody that, you know, you grow up, and you wrestle, and you fight, and you this or you see what happens. Sometimes if youre alone and youre fighting somebody whos tough, and you get somebody in a choke hold, what are you going to do . Say, oh and its a real bad person, and you know that. And they do exist. If youre thinking about it, then you realize maybe there is a bad fight, and the officer gets somebody in a position. The concept of choke hold sounds so innocent, so perfect, and then you realize if its a oneonone now, if its twoonone, its a little bit of a different story. That being said, i think it would be a very good thing that generally speaking it should be ended. Trump has yet to give any kind of speech on race or unity or race relations, preferring to bring these topics up at smaller, more carefully curated events. Politico is reporting that some people of color in senior roles at the white house say the administration had, quote, a huge opportunity and botched it. Tomorrow trump will have a chance to speak to a large group when he addresses graduates at west point. Hell be speaking to over 1,000 newly minted Second Lieutenants in the midst of an extraordinary falling out with the nations military after the pentagons top general publicly apologized for showing up with trump at that now famous photo op minutes after federal authorities forced protesters off public grounds. That was followed by scathing criticism from exdefense secretary jim mattis as well as several former commanders and military officials. As trump has sought to navigate difficult points in his presidency, he has often compared his performance to past president s and, most recently, to Abraham Lincoln. I think ive done more for the black community than any other president , and lets take a pass on Abraham Lincoln because he did good although its always questionable, you know . In other words well, we are free, mr. President. He did pretty well. You understand what i mean . Yes. Im going to take a pass on honest abe as we call him. Here for our leadoff discussion on a friday night, the veteran journalist, bestselling author susan page. Usa today Washington Bureau chief. Robert costa, National Political reporter for the washington post, moderator of Washington Week on pbs. Melissa murray is back with us as well. Shes an nyu law professor who clerked for Sonia Sotomayor when the now Supreme Court justice was sitting on the u. S. Court of appeals. Good evening and welcome to you all. Hey, susan, what does his thinking on lincoln tell you about his thinking . Well, brian, youre a student of history. Tell me what are the questions about lincoln and emancipation because i am unfamiliar with them. I mean its just hard to imagine. Part of, i think, President Trumps difficulty in talking about these issues in a fresh way. Hes talked about race a lot in his life. He talked about race in 2016, back to the central park five, but its been race in a different way, race as a wedge. So this different call for him to use race as reaching out to new attitudes to addressing longstanding racial injustices, that is something he is really just not comfortable doing. Melissa, heres a quote from the New York Times on donald trump and race and Public Opinion shifting around him. Whether it is suggesting shooting protesters or siccing dogs on them, preemptively defending the confederate names of military installations or arguing that his supporters love the black people, mr. Trump increasingly sounds like a cultural relic, detached from not just the leftleaning protesters in the streets but also the countrys political middle and even some republican allies and his own military leaders. Melissa, is that the broader point . Is that the movement we feel in the earth, that sound you hear, as weve been saying all week, is the demographic and generational train leaving the station . Well, i dont think anyone is expecting the president to be woke on issues of race, but i do think that most americans were expecting more of a conciliatory tone, recognizing that people of color have disproportionally borne the impact of the pandemic and that on top of it, the Police Violence that weve seen the protests responding to over the last couple of weeks, i think most people just expected more of this president and perhaps we should not have. Robert, we have a pandemic under way. We have people protesting in the streets for 18 Straight Days and nights. The American Economy is a shambles. Roughly one in four out of work. Hardly a brew for a successful Reelection Campaign, say nothing of the other republicans downballot from this president. Yeah, republicans are trying to navigate this moment on their own, in a different way from President Trump but not trying to become politically isolated from him. To build on professor murrays excellent points, you see republicans like kevin mccarthy, the minority leader in the house, now open to a discussion about a federal ban on choke holds because, as she said, there is an expectation in the country but specifically in battleground states, in battleground districts, that this is a racial reckoning in the United States, a National Moment where there are many calls for change. And so whether its leader mccarthy or even leader mcconnell in the senate, who has delegated some of the debate and discussion to senator tim scott of south carolina, you do see republicans being a bit open, more than the president , to some discussion of policy reform. Susan, you and i have so often discussed president ial moments. Youve written about your share of them. When the history of this administration is written, where do you think Lafayette Park will land . I think it is a hugely iconic moment in this in this whole time. I think its something that well remember. I think it was it helped define President Trumps approach to this. It also, i think, prompted a lot of americans to say they supported they support the idea of peaceful protests outside the white house. They dont like the idea of the forcible removal of protesters so the president could go and stand in front of st. Johns church. I think it was a hugely damaging episode for the president. And we see the reverberations even now, even with general milley apologizing for being with the president. What an extraordinary thing is that . The chairman of the joint chiefs of staff appointed by this president to that job apologizing for going with him for that photo op. Really quite momentous, historic occasion that is. Professor, lets engage in a little entomology. I heard someone tonight wondering that perhaps trump saw a segment on television, perhaps even fox news where a member of Law Enforcement was saying that in a scuffle, if perfectly applied, a choke hold is effective toward gaining control of someone. What else would lead him to use the words innocent and perfect to discuss a choke hold . I really could not get into the mind of the president to actually give you any sense of why innocent and perfect were the terms that he used to describe a choke hold. I think at a time where so many of us are thinking about ways that the police can deescalate confrontations with civilians, to say that the choke hold is innocent and perfect in some circumstances is to really give lie to that particular debate. But again, this is the same president who has announced that hes having a rally on juneteenth, the anniversary of the emancipation of africanamericans in this country in tulsa, oklahoma, the site of one of the most significant race riots and massacres in this countrys history. So in terms of what the message is, i think were getting a very clear signal from the president that some of these things dont matter in his view. Melissa, the further insult as Rachel Maddow profiled tonight extensively is that juneteenth celebrations in tulsa were all canceled this year because, after all, were in the middle of a pandemic. This will now bring a mass of people into a city, tulsa, with spiking coronavirus rates right now. Again, as i said before, the Africanamerican Community and other communities of color have disproportionally borne the impact of the coronavirus. To take juneteenth, which is a day that is really important to a number of africanamericans, hasnt been celebrated on a wide scale in the United States, but important nonetheless, and to have a political rally on that day, again, it underscores the degree to which this is not a concern, at least for this administration, but perhaps it should be. Robert costa, a couple of remaining issues. We have 144 days, and we have 50 secretaries of state whose job it is ideally to ensure the integrity of the coming election. On a micro level, you have the Trump Campaign and the continued swirl of rumors, some of them in conservative media, that the president s going to pull the rip cord on the man running the campaign. Discuss any or all. Well, when you look at the Trump Campaign right now, its being run by brad parscale, but you also have a political director, a Deputy Campaign manager in bill stepien, who came from the white house. Mr. Parscale has often been someone who has been the subject of speculation in the president s inner circle. Because of his high profile, he sometimes appears in advertisements. He appears at Trump Campaign rallies. But remember he is close to not only President Trump but to the president s children, and in the president s inner circle, after reporting on him for a decade, its clear that being a friend of jared kushner, of donald trump jr. And eric trump and ivanka trump gives you capital inside a world that has always been familyoriented. He was the digital director in 2016. For now, based on my reporting, he appears to be safe. But we did see in 2016 the president rifled between Campaign Managers quite a bit. Susan, its true that books will be written about this campaign. I guess as you look back through american history, the closest weve had to the front campaigns of the late 1800s all of it because of a pandemic. And one of these days, were going to learn who the former Vice President biden has chosen as his running mate. Do you have any intel on that process . Well, we know that theyve gone to a second round of vetting. We know hes announced publicly hes going to choose a woman. I think it is very likely that he will choose a woman of color. That would be important to seize this moment. That would seem appropriate and also to energize some of the voters that he needs to energize. By the biden people are looking pretty optimistic at the moment. I mean its five months away. A lot can happen. But when you see places like ohio and iowa being competitive, when you see georgia and arizona being competitive, this is all very sobering news for the president. And, professor, a final question to you to try to end on a hopeful note. 18 Straight Days and nights. We still have people in the streets tonight, yet can you supply us with a hopeful note that the arguments are being heard, that the door is being opened to reforming policing and social justice . Well, i think the fact that weve seen so many young people taking to the streets, even at a time when we are under a lockdown and dealing with a deadly virus, should give us some hope that our democracy is in good hands, that these young people really do care about these issues. I think even in the regular institutions of government, weve seen a lot of movement showing that these issues really matter to a lot of people. Weve seen bills passed, bills floated in congress dealing with things like qualified immunity. Weve heard calls for redistributing police funds to other sorts of social justice issues, including education. So were taking a lot of this seriously, and theres been a lot of movement. The fact that we have seen the rise of noknock warrant bans in certain communities, im including louisville, kentucky, where Breonna Taylor was killed, all of this suggests that people are taking this moment incredibly seriously. Its a really important moment in our countrys history, and they are making the most of it. Thank you for that. A good note to end on. With our thanks to three terrific guests on a friday night after the end of another very long week. To susan page, to robert costa, to melissa murray, our great thanks. Coming up for us, rallying at your own risk. Why does the president s Reelection Campaign have more to say more forthrightly about coronavirus than the president . Well show you what dr. Fauci had to say about the risk of just showing up at next weeks maga rally in tulsa. And later, as critics call for defunding the police, well show you the local department willing to spend money on retraining, which in their case includes an overseas plane ticket as the 11th hour is just getting under way on this friday night. music hold on one second. Sure. Okay. Okay safe drivers save 40 guys guys check it out. Safe drivers save 40 safe drivers save 40 safe drivers save 40 thats safe drivers save 40 . It is, thats safe drivers save 40 . Hes right there. Its him hes here. Hes right here. Hi hi. Hey thats totally him. Its him thats totally the guy. Safe drivers do save 40 . Click or call for a quote today. Safe drivers do save 40 . There are times when our need to connect really matters. To keep customers and employees in the know. To keep business moving. Comcast business is prepared for times like these. Powered by the nations largest gigspeed network. To help give you the speed, reliability, and security you need. Tools to manage your business from any device, anywhere. And a team of experts here for you 24 7. Weve always believed in the power of working together. Thats why, when every connection counts. You can count on us. When youre in a large crowd, if you have the congregation of people that are much, much close to each other, you definitely increase the risk that you will either acquire or spread infections. Theres some people that are going to do that anyway no matter what i say. But the issue is if they do, please wear a mask all the time. Dr. Anthony fauci warning against the very activities the president is promoting. Its been 46 days, 46 days since the last official White House Coronavirus task force briefing. Today the cdc did say, offcamera mind you, that state or local governments may want to reimpose strict social distancing measures if cases dramatically spike. And that will have to pass as our advice from our federal government today. 14 states reporting increases of 25 or more in new cases. Oregon, utah putting reopening plans on pause. Other states are not. With us again tonight, its a lot. Dr. Irwin redlener, pediatrics physician by training, a clinical professor with the school of Public Health up at Columbia University in new york, where he is also the director of columbias National Center for disaster preparedness. Doctor, where are we the question i ask you every time youre nice enough to come on our broadcast. Where are we in this virus . Well, brian, were actually facing a its not even a second wave yet because we havent finished with the first wave. But were experiencing very significant upticks in the number of cases, hospitalizations, and fatalities in a number of the states that opened. And i think all of the states, brian, as weve discussed before, have opened way too soon, and now were seeing some really awful consequences that come from those decisions. I hope youre okay with the mantle of being among the faces of Public Health in our country. It struck me watching fauci today that wasnt part of any government briefing. To see tony fauci f