Youre going to do it under oath . By our standard, you would do it under oath . I would. What amounted to a prebuttal whether his actions amounted to obstruction of justice, the president said this. Do you think Robert Mueller will be fair to you in this larger investigation . Were going to find out. Are you concerned about heres what hell say, and everybody says. No collusion. Theres no collusion. Now theyre saying, oh, well, did he fight back . You fight back. You fight back. Oh, its obstruction. So, heres the thing. I hope so. The Washington PostJennifer Rubin with the sharp est analysis in a piece trumps inability to understand obstruction of justice may be his downfall. Quote, here trump is shoulting his corrupt intent, though he has no idea its corrupt from the rooftops. Hes not at all embarrassed to admit he tried to strong arm the fbi and shut down comey. In fact, he believes he was entitled to do these things. To our reporters and experts, Nbcs Kristen Welker at the white house, Msnbc National Security analyst jeremy bash, a former chief of staff at both the cia and pentagon. Matthew miller, msnbc justice and security analyst, a former chief spokesman for the department of justice. And steve schmidt, republican strategist and msnbc contributor. Kristen welker, let me start with you because i understand there was a bit of a walk back from the ground and the territory that the president staked out from himself in that remarkable press reveal. It was remarkable, nicole. I was there when the president basically surprised everyone by interrupting what was a background briefing on immigration. And we started asking him a range of questions about immigration, and then, of course, about the russia probe. As you just played, the president very definitively said he would be willing to testify under oath. Then shortly after those remarks and after that impromptu press conference ended, his lawyer here at the white house who handles all things related to russia, ty cobb, walked back his comments a little bit, essentially saying, look, the president was speaking hurriedly before he left for davos, and that his broader message that hes cooperating with the special counsel, but that the terms of any interview are still being discussed by his legal team. Ty cobb stressing that point. When i asked if the president would testify under oath, he said, look, the president wants to cooperate with the special counsel with whatever is requested by the special counsel. But, again, the terms of any potential interview are still very much under negotiation. The time frame is important here, nicole. The president himself saying this could happen as soon as two to three weeks. Thats consistent with everything that weve been reporting. But based on my conversations, they are still trying to work out those details, what would an interview look like, would all of it be in person, would there be a written portion to the interview, how long would it be, what would the scope be. Those are among the questions being asked. Also worth noting that john dowd, who is the president s personal attorney, earlier today put out this statement, essentially saying that the legal team had been the most transparent in history, had turned over some 20,000 documents and 20 white house officials had sat for interviews with the special counsel. So, really trying to make the case that, look, they are cooperating. They want to see this investigation conclude as quickly as possible. Kristen, theyre cooperating. If not they get subpoenaed. Its not like they woke up and said how can i help out mueller today. I do think their approach to this and it is a significant one, because remember before the president got his legal team together, he was almost on a daily basis lashing out at the investigation, the russia probe, calling it a hoax. There is still some of that. But his legal team and the approach that they have taken is lets dial back some of that aggression and lets just focus on getting the special counsel whatever documents, whatever interviews theyre asking for, nicolle. Jeremy bash, it does amount to a little bit of managing the principal in that we also know first of all, its baloney that donald trump went out there and painted with some broad brush strokes. He took out a scalpel, he carved out what Hillary Clinton did and put himself in a different category. He was hardly riffing and in a rush. It sounds like kristen, jump in and correct me if im wrong. He didnt really rush through any of those comments. He dove in, he dug in, and he was pretty expansive, right . He didnt seem to be rushing. So, jeremy, let me get you to weigh in on two things. One, this is Client Management playing out in full view, which proves two things. One, that donald trump is a horrible client. Its no wonder his friends describe his lawyers as the cteam. And, two, is it possible that donald trump is acknowledging that he may have done something that looks like obstruction of justice, but he was entitled to obstruct justice, he was just fighting back . It was a very troubling day for trumps lawyers, nicolle, because two things happened. First of all, he said he would testify under oath. He made that statement kind of in a rash answer before the lawyers really had to consider whether that was the proper strategy. And second is he gave a presentation where his words were imprecise. His tone was chaotic, and his approach was completely defensive, making counter accusations. Thats precisely the wrong approach when youre being interviewed by the special counsel. So, on both scores it was a huge set back for the trump legal team. Matthew miller, let me play you donald trump asking questions, not under oath, but while being interviewed by our own lester holt who is i think probably ever bit as good as bob mueller asking questions but the stakes not as high. Lets watch and talk about it on the other end. You met with the Deputy Attorney general rod rosenstein. Right. Did you ask for a recommendation . What i did was i was going to fire comey. My decision, it was not you had made the decision before they came in the room . I was going to fire comey. When i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i said, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a madeup story. Its an excuse by the democrats for having lost an election that they should have won. So, let me just take that answer and put it inside actually, im guessing bob mueller would travel down to the oval office. Most special counsels have granted president as that courtesy of coming down and interviewing them in the oval office or wherever its convenient, the es are dns, wherever a president chooses. But telling bob mueller that he was always going to fire jim comey because, i said to myself, i said, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is madeup story, its an excuse by the democrats for having lost an election. The democrats having lost an election they should have won. So, he is acknowledging that the story that was put out by the white house was a ruse, was a lie, what people what surrogates like Kellyanne Conway and others said to be the reasons this rosenstein memo about comey wasnt the truth. He admitted the truth to lester holt. What would a witness like donald trump be like in the hands of bob mueller . Its a great question because that real difficult explode 36 hours of talking points from the Justice Department, from the white house, that jim comey was fired because of the way he handled the Hillary Clinton investigation, number one, and number two, it was a bottomup recommendation that came from the Justice Department to the president , not the other way around. And when the president made those remarks, really, you know, unsolicited. He just kind of came out and volunteered this information. It was the first sign that we might have a real act of obstruction of justice by the president. And, so, when he sits down with bob mueller, hes going to have to be held accountable for all of these statements. Bob mueller is going to take all the statements hes made publicly, and not just publicly, but statements that he made to other people who bob mueller has interviewed. So, the president probably doesnt remember everything he said in a meeting six months ago, three months ago, two months ago. But staffers will often have much more memory of what the principal said. Its a searing thing when the principal said something, especially if its something inappropriate. They remember that. If theyve told it to bob mueller, the president is going to be asked about that. If his recollection is different, he may very well commit a false statement. Steve schmidt, i want to get your thoughts on this, but i want to play one more piece of sound from this remarkable press event yesterday. This was about acting fbi director andy mccabe. Lets watch. Did you ask mccabe who he voted for . Did you ask him that . I dont think so. Krong i did. You did not . I dont know whats the big deal with that. Who did you vote for . [ laughter ] i dont think its a big deal. But i dont remember that. I saw that this morning. I dont remember asking him that question. Is it possible you did . I dont remember asking him the question. Steve schmidt, we should remind our viewers who andy mccabe is. Hes the acting director of the fbi. Hes someone donald trump has smeared in a series of tweets that he sent from his twitter feed which the white house deems official white house statements of policy. He has served under democratic and republican administrations and we know that bob mueller is interested in andy mccabes account that he found it very troubling that donald trump asked him who he had voted for. Your thoughts . Well, there are tua expects to it, nicolle. The first is the smearing of this credibuareer public serva is number two to the president of the United States. And how unnormal that is, how strange it is to see that, the spectacle of it going on. And then the Second Parliament of it is theres no specific rule that prevents the president of the United States from asking the fbi number two that question. What prevents a president from asking that question is understanding norms. That to protect the independence of the fbi, the president of the United States doesnt discuss politics with him. He doesnt pressure him politically. He doesnt ask the number two at the fbi who it is that he voted for. Its completely utterly absolutely inappropriate. And to come back to what jeremy bash was saying which i think is dead on, the news encounter so remarkable in just its abject recklessness. And as this proceeds apace and the president walks into a room with the special counsel and does what he typically does, which is make stuff up, be inaccurate with information, reckless in his approach, there are going to be negative serious consequence of him and his lawyers are scared to death about that. Chris, can i have you for one quick question . Absolutely. Let me come back to that. Ty cobb seems to show through his actions if not words what jeremy and steve articulated what a horrible witness donald trump would be and unmanageable client he is by the mere fact he walked back the New York Times characterization of what the president committed to doing. What is their strategy Going Forward for a client who doesnt i worked for a candidate who went rogue and it was sort of a joke. She delivered messages that werent in line with the man at the top of the ticket and wrote books about it. It was funny, it was about being mismanaged. But this is a man who is a sitting president of the United States. The stakes could be his own impeachment. Why doesnt he seem to take seriously the legal advice hes getting from his own lawyers . Well, i think that the strategy behind the scenes, to your point, nicolle, is to really try to push an interview that would include, if not solely be written. Of course legal analysts say that is very unlikely that the special counsel would agree to that. But remember, when the negotiations started and we first started reporting on the fact that there were these sensitive discussions going on with the president s legal team and the special counsels team, it focused on that, on trying to have some written portion of this interview. Submitting an affidavit, for an example, so that there could be discipline to the answers that were given. So, that is why i think you have ty cobb coming out last night and saying, look, there is still very much a dialogue going on about what this ultimate interview and interaction is going to look like. And then more broadly, i think that there is a message being sent behind the scenes that there needs to be discipline, both in terms of some of these oncamera interviews, but also in terms of the tweets that are sent out. And i think thats been sort of consistent throughout the course of this investigation since the president put his legal team together, nicolle. Kristen, thank you for spending a few more minutes with us. Thank you. We appreciate it. Jeremy bash, let me come back to you, though. An affidavit in Donald Trumps mind, i would predict isnt any more binding than a speech agreed upon by all of his senior staff and delivered on a teleprompter. Once hes left to his own devices we know that he feels at liberty to deviate from something agreed upon and delivered based on a script. Would you trust donald trump to deliver some i mean, first of all, let me ask you, there any scenario where bob mueller accepts simply written answers and no interview . No, because the answers would be written by counsel. And the point of an investigation is to get facts in evidence and what counsel provides is not facts in evidence. They provide argumentation, so no. That said, it is going to be at best for the president , some combination of written answers and an interview. Where would you put the odds based on watching donald trump as a candidate and a president now deliver one set of ideas that are scripted for him from a teleprompter, and then deviate from them, not just slightly, but almost completely in spirit, in tone, in tenor, and in substance often issues like charlottesville, on issues related to immigration policy . You can go up and down the line of issues big and small and the president almost 100 of the time deviates from things that have been written for him by staff. Odds are very high. And in that impromptu press conference, he said he i wasnt obstructing justice, i was fighting back. Under that logic he could lie to the special counsel under the gooids guise of fighting back. He doesnt realize hes committing felonious perjury. If his lawyers cant get that concept into his head, hes going to have a very difficult interview. Do you think let me give you the last word on this, steve schmidt. Do you think that the idea of committing perjury is something that the president s team has sort of red teamed . Do you think they have shown him how bill clinton was impeached by the house . Do you think they have looked at any worst Case Scenarios . Do you think they are simply caught in the moment of managing their client, living hour to hour with the revelations that seem to be coming out at an increasing clip from the Mueller Probe . Id be completely astounded if it wasnt their number one worry that it wasnt the first thing that they thought about in the morning and the last thing they thought about before they close their eyes at night. Thats his chief vulnerability. I was just thinking listening to jeremy, the degree to which this completely validates the Michael Wolff book, chaos in the white house, he doesnt read, you cant tell him anything, he knows everything. And you just know for sure the lawyers are telling him one thing and he says, hey, ive been deposed like 595 times. Ive been in all these lawsuits. Trump doesnt lose. Ill take care of it. I know more than the lawyers. Im the president. Im in charge. I can do whatever i want. And i think you really saw that manifest itself. Its not the issue that he doesnt understand it. Its the issue that he doesnt want to understand it. You cant tell him anything and it creates great vulnerability to him. It will be fascinating to see how this plays out in the next couple of weeks as this comes to its end game. All right. No one is going anywhere today. We need you all to stick around. And when we come back, why wouldnt you admit my greatness, asked no american president ever, until now. Well bring you those groundbreaking remarks. Also ahead, left behind or opting out. 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What good is having insurance if you get punished for using it . News flash nobodys perfect. For drivers with accident forgiveness, Liberty Mutual wont raise your rates due to your first accident. Switch and you could save 782 on home and auto insurance. Call for a free quote today. Liberty stands with you™ Liberty Mutual insurance. We are back and our panel is here. Joining the conversation today, bill crystal, founder and editor of the weekly standard. Elise, former aid in the george w. Bush white house, now msnbc analyst. Eli stokols, msnbc analyst and Trump White House whisperer. Jeremys team and matt are also here. I want to play one more clip from Donald Trumps remarkable News Conference last night where hes asked how do you define collusion. His answer som