Chose to do otherwise. This does not alter my commitment to defend myself against the untrue piled up charges contained in the indictments against me. Gates becomes the third former Trump Campaign official to join what one former prosecutor and trump ally describes as team america. Gates along with former National Security advisor mike flynn and former Trump Campaign advisor George Papadopoulos are all now cooperating with the investigation and providing special counsel bob mueller with any and all information, including testimony, documents, electronic files, or anything else it requests in return for leniency. As this news was breaking, donald trump addressed a wildly enthusiastic crowd at the annual cpac conference just outside washington, d. C. I saved you, cried the woman, and youve bitten me. Heavens why . You know your bite is poisonous and now im going to die. Oh, shut up, silly woman, said the reptile with a grin. You knew dam well i was a snake before you took me in. [ cheers and applause ] and thats what were doing with our country, folks. Were letting people in and its going to be a lot of trouble. That, ladies and gentlemen, was our president. Anyone who has covered trump recognizes that brazen version we witnessed at cpac as the kettle blowing steam donald trump. Todays guilty plea may explain the Pressure Cooker that the Washington Post has written about in the past and may likely describe the west wing today as the Mueller Probe inches closer and closer to the president s inner circle. We have assembled some of our favorite reporters and friends to break it all down. Joining us from the Washington PostWhite House Bureau chief phil ruckerment in the New York TimesMichael Schmidt also joining us. Chuck rosenberg former u. S. Attorney, former senior fbi official now thankfully and msnbc contributor. And harry lit man, former u. S. Attorney and former Deputy Assistant attorney general during the clinton administration. Let me start with you, Michael Schmidt, and ask you, youve written i think the stories today and yesterday about the significance of rick gates, of his guilty plea and what that might mean in terms of the wider Mueller Probe. Break it down for us. Look, this is the latest movement and indication that mueller is building a case in the traditional federal investigation. He has put pressure on manafort, put pressure on gates here to gates to flip. What does gates have to offer . What did he give mueller in exchange for this . Is it simply just information to put more pressure on manafort to get manafort to flip . Or is there more information . Gates was around, as you pointed out, for longer than manafort was. Is there anything that he knows about the campaign . Remember, the central question we sometimes forget as we look at all these documents today about the ukraine, its obviously about russian collusion. Is there anything he knows about that. So, what does this deal look like . What is it all about . And how does it help mueller advance himself . Is it simply just on manafort or is it broader . And let me set up for you all the things that rick gates who may or may not be a household name at this point was involved in. He served as the Trump CampaignDeputy Campaign chairman. He was a transition official. So, he was there as the Trump Campaign folks started landing in different agencies. And he stayed in the trump white houses good graces and worked over at the trump super pac. So, what sorts of things what sorts of things would they be able to glean if they had the same kinds of things we know they seized from Paul Manafort in that noknock search they did where they seized all of his computers, all the hard drives . I guess the cooperating witness in the special counsel investigation, hes now agreed to hand all those sorts of things over. Well, my guess well, certainly, look, he was involved with things from the convention. There were questions that happened at the convention. There are questions about things that happened at the transition. What were these things that went on and does he provide any larger insight into them . Is he getting a deal just on manafort or is there actual stuff . Is there stuff on the convention . Obviously there were those questions early on about the platform and why the platform changed. Was that something he was involved in . Was there more that he can provide there . As you point out this is someone that stayed in trumps orbit a lo lot longer than manafort it speaks to a fundamental problem trump had. It was not a Traditional Campaign and they let different people in that probably wouldnt have been let in to, say, a Mitt Romney Campaign and they allowed them to stay around for longer. They didnt vet them in the same way a traditional candidate would. Were seeing a product of that today. Phil rucker, i was warned today as Michael Schmidt pointed out not to look at this as a piece of the manafort story but to how much longer gates endured and potentially for mueller a bigger piece on the chess board. I want to read to you something your colleague philip bump wrote today. Getting manafort to cooperate would be huge. Save flipping a member of trumps family like soninlaw Jared Kushner. There are few people higher in the Trump Campaign infrastructure during 2016. Hes much more possible to be aware of efforts to shift the direction of the campaign, including any ways in which those shifts crossed ethical or legal lines. So, it seemed to me we gloss over the gates at our own peril as he could be a central figure in trying to get whatever it is that muellers investigators want out of mueller and if its as your colleague surmises, someone who might flip on the family member. Or as Michael Schmidt is alluding to, if its a window into what sorts of promises were being made during the campaign, during the transition, or even once donald trump was president. I think thats exactly right, nicolle. Potentially gates could provide a lot of information to mueller. He was privy to a lot of transactions that took place at the campaign. He was very involved, for example, in the creation of the digital strategy, the social media strategy excuse me during the fall. He worked closely with Jared Kushner, the president s soninlaw. He was very involved in the transition at trump tower. We saw him there a lot. He helped in the room in terms of deciding some of the officials that would get positions in the government. And he was close to manafort, but he stayed on beyond manafort and had the blessing of ivanka and Jared Kushner during a period in the Fall Campaign where he would have had access to a lot of information and a lot of strategic decisions. Chuck rosenberg, i want to ask you, theres been some analysis that the additional charges, indictments against manafort and gates coming so many months after the first ones, which i believe were in october, could mean a whole lot of different things. We dont know what we dont know. But since those first charges were filed, steve bannon, Jeff Sessions, jim comey and sam nunberg have all spent time in the special counsels office space in washington, d. C. What sorts of pieces of the story might steve bannon, Jeff Sessions and jim comey and sam nunberg who was a Trump Campaign official, what sorts of things could they have shared what threads could they have pulled that would have revealed additional crimes on the part of the president s former Campaign Chairman and his deputy . Well, nicolle, these could all be independent tracks. I wouldnt necessarily draw a Straight Line from sam nunberg and jim comey, for instance, to rick gates and Paul Manafort. What weve seen from the special counsel as the submarine surfaces from time to time, is that there are many different aspects to the case. I imagine that continues to be true today. And let me ask you, larry lit man, you wrote a piece before todays guilty plea about muellers momentum and you wrote, theres greater cause for hope this week than last that the full contours of the story, whether it involves actions that are sinister, bumbling, criminal or unwitting, will in due time come clear so long as Robert Mueller stays on the job. What from your vantage point, from your sort of what you see with your experience, what is your analysis of both the pace of these indictments of the things that are now becoming public at a quicker pace since the new year, and what is your sense of where this investigation is based on what we see . Well, yeah, its been kind of a breath taking week where he has brought into play not simply all kinds of new charges, but new basic episodes that hell be able to build one after the other, the bannon conversation, the gates plea, the van der shal plea as well. In terms of gates where it would be headed, he did have a proper session with the prosecution. It was that that he actually did gates lie about one of the charges hes pleaded to. And notwithstanding lying, mueller offered him a pretty sweetheart deal. So, i think its likely that he not only stitches up manafort for mueller, which is no mean feat, but also does offer, as others are saying, certain insights into what was going on during the campaign, even post manaforts exit. Chuck, let me ask you to weigh in on the manafort Statement Today. He obviously expressed displeasure with his former deputy pleading guilty, and a lot of people have asked me and not that im any authority, but have sort of been throwing around this question about whether a pardon has been promised either explicitly or through some intermediary. What did you think when you saw the manafort Statement Today expressing displeasure and disappointment in gates for not staying and fighting to try to prove their innocence . At least on paper, it seems like an impossible or at best a herculean task. It is not a statement to say the least, nicolle. You have to look at this not from manaforts perspective, but from gates perspective. If you read these indictments and ive read them carefully, the case against both of these guys is overwhelming. Its really not a difficult case to prove in court. Its a hard case to investigate, but not a hard case to prove in court. And so gates had to make a rational choice. He did. What he gets out of it is some finality and the chance, not the promise, but the chance to stay out of jail. And so the notion that manafort would take a shot at him for making a rational choice about his own, gatess own future seems kind of silly and desperate. Its an odd statement to say the least. Is it an irrational question to wonder if manafort has been assured through some back channel, a pardon if he does president plead guilty to these crimes . Its not odd to wonder that. In fact, that may well be the case. We dont know what we dont know as you said earlier. But, look, if hes going to get a pardon, hes going to get a pardon whether he pleads guilty, is convicted at trial, or just stays the course and tries to wait this thing out. So, again, hard know what we dont know. But the statement seems and im being kind here unseemly and odd. Were going to break it down and youll be as mean as me by the earned of this. I want to play something for you, phil rucker. Donald trump weighed in on the question of security clearances for Jared Kushner. Lets lips enin and talk about it on the other side. Would you be willing to grant a waiver to Jared Kushner . I think hes been treated unfairly. Hes a highquality person. He works for nothing, just so nobody ever reports that. But he gets zero. He doesnt get a salary. So, that will be up to general kelly. General kelly respects jared a lot and general kelly will make that call. I wont make that call. I will let the general, who is right here, make that call. But jareds doing some very important things for our country. He gets paid zero. Ivanka, by the way, gets paid zero. So, i will let general kelly make that decision and hes going to do whats right for the country, and i have no doubt hell make the right decision. Phil rucker, i have no doubt hell make the right decision. Jared is doing a really good job for no money, and im sure that the general will do the right thing for the country. He was obviously making his preference pretty obvious there. He was. And, nicolle, the fact that Jared Kushner doesnt take a salary is basically irrelevant to this conversation. Hes still a white house staff member. He chose to be in the staff as opposed to just being a family member. And he has an important National Security portfolio dealing with the middle east peace issue as well as the relationship with mexico. And so i dont know how he can continue to do that job effectively without the highest level of security clearance which creates a really difficult decision for john kelly who we know over many months has had moments of real genuine tension with Jared Kushner and ivanka trump in part because they are sort of in this weird in between space between being actual staffers and family members. And they try to have it both ways sometimes. Oftentimes, right . All the time. All the time, right . Michael, let me ask you just to followup on the security clearance issue, because this was like three scandals ago but it was never resolved. Questions were never answered by this white house. And one question that i have is, is it possible that the kinds of things that are being asked the reasons that Jared Kushner might be a witness of interest in the Mueller Probe are the same kinds of questions that the fbi might have in investigating his background sufficiently enough to say no, no, sir, he wouldnt be a threat . That is the fbis test in a background check for any white house staffer. And if they havent finished answering those questions for the purposes of the mueller investigation, how could they possibly finish answering those questions for the purposes of a background check . The one thing about the kushner part is that we dont know a lot about what mueller is looking at specifically on him. But you are right, the two things would sort of lineup. In fact, sort of on the russia question, for the background check you would look at the contacts with foreign officials. What were jareds contacts with the russians. That is obviously a central question. What was the campaigns relationship with the russians, what was going on, what type of meetings happened so they would lineup there. Same question on business interests. Were there business were there things going on on the business side with foreigners at all that are being looked at by mueller . Obviously that is definitely something that would looked at on the background check. They are parallel things. The real question is why has this been delayed. Is it as they say Jared Kushners finances are just so complicated that they cant get to the bottom of it, or are there other reasons . We know that initially there were problems with the paperwork, that it was not properly filled out, all of the officials, the foreign officials he met with and they had to go back and amend it, its been amended a few times since then. For example, one of the things that got amended was the trump tower meeting in 2016. Were the russians promising dirt to jared and manafort. They do lineup at times. Lit man, tie this all together for us. We sit here all of us one week after the stunning indictments last friday of 13 russian nationals. Since then two more individuals have been well, one more has pleaded guilty, another has been indicted in the Mueller Probe. Just pull back the lens a little bit for us and tell us where you think we are here at the end of february. Okay. Well, let me start with Jared Kushner because theres a big difference between proving a guilty charge, a criminal charge beyond a reasonable doubt in front of a jury with abby lowell defending and figuring out whether there is a security risk. Security risks are usually adjudicated in several months. If you have some troubling information, thats enough. There is not the same burden of proof and rights for that person. So, i think probably the white house has already processed sufficient information to give grave doubt as to his ability to handle classified information and it really does rest with kelly now. In terms of the broader status of the investigation, as chuck says, the submarine surfaces occasionally. But in the last week it surfaced and put into play four new platforms of inquiry. And if i had to try to tie together a basic theme, they are sort of setting the stage for activity in and from russia, and the next big piece will be whether there is an ability to link up things in the United States, people in the United States with what was obviously nefarious activity coming from a hostile power. Michael schmidt, Chuck Rosenberg and harry litman, were so grateful for all of you starting us off. Thank you so much. Phil rucker is still staying with us. Hes not done yet. When we come back one of our next guests describes the president s inaction on russian meddling as a dereliction of duty. Well speak to her about what a nation can do without a president willing to protect it. Also ahead, pinning the president down