Already volatile situation worse. In and Ominous Press briefing today it, Sarah Huckabee sanders today said multiple times that the president does have the power to fire Robert Mueller. Do you believe he has the power to fire special counsel Robert Mueller. Certainly believes he has the power to do so. I know a number of individuals in the Legal Community including at the department of justice said he has the power to do so but i dont have any further announcements. Theyve said its Rod Rosenstein oversees the special al and only he has the power. Weve been advised the president certainly has the power to make that decision. I cant go anything beyond that. The New York Times is reporting during the raid of cohens office, the fbi agents were looking for records about payments to two women who calculated they had affairs with mr. Trump and information related to the publisher of the National Enquirers role in silencing one woman including the payment to Stormy Daniels and the payment made by account National Enquirer to Karen Mcdougal. Daniels is now cooperating with federal prosecutors. Stormy daniels is working with the feds. The search warrants were sought. And executed by fbi agents and federal prosecutors in new york in coordination with muellers team. To obtain them, prosecutors not only convinced a judge there was probable cause that cohen possessed evidence of a crime, they got the approval of Deputy Attorney general Rod Rosenstein who signed off on the decision. The president president yesterday denounced the raid and assailed the probe in an attempt to obscure the facts and characterized the legal search as a breakin and called the probe an attack on our country. And referring to the investigation in an apparent moment of candor, he said he wanted to keep it down. So i just heard that they broke into the office of one of my personal attorneys, good man. And its a disgraceful situation. Its a total witch hunt. Ive been saying it for a long time. Ive wanted to keep it down. Its frankly a real disgrace. Its an attack on our country in a true sense. Well, in defending the president today, Sarah Sanders said trump believes the investigation has gone too far. Sarah, talking about the raid on Michael Cohens office, the president said its an attack on our country. Its an attack on what we all stand for. In what way is an fbi raid on Michael Cohens office an attack on our country . I think that the president has been clear that he thinks that this has gone too far and beyond that, i dont have anything to add. I would refer you back to the president s comments. Joining me is Michael Schmidt reporter for the New York Times, Heidi Przybyla with nbc news, chuck rosenburg, former u. S. Attorney, former senior fbi official and contributor, and paul butler, msnbc legal analyst. What do you make of Huckabee Sanders saying is obviously speaking for the president he has the right it out fire mueller, the man investigating him . Its front of minds for the president and i think the president. Its what . Front of mind . This is something that he has talked about for almost a year now. Since the day mueller was appointed. You now have this incredibly aggressive move. I think sometimes in this era, we get numb to whats going on. The Justice Department got a judge to sign off on this to go in to the president s Lawyers Office to take these documents. That is they have to have a real reason to do that. This is not just sending out a subpoena to satisfy there wasnt a crime or asking someone questions in an interview. Its going to the heart of the things that donald trump has said hes most concerned about. This red line that he put up with mueller. And heidi, good to see you. Heres the question. Why they afraid he was destroying property and evidence . That apparently had to be part of the calculation. From everything that ive read and from all the experts ive talked to, this had to be a really high bar to go ahead and raid a lawyer and the lawyer for the president of the United States. So they want had to believe that there was probable cause potentially there was a crime committed and that there was evidence that they would obtain in this raid. What would the crime be regarding Stormy Daniels or Karen Mcdougal, either payments for silence. And campaign financence. Which would be a crime . Campaign finance violations. Campaign contributions. Right. Now there is a higher bar there, right . Just the fact that it was 12 days can before the election alone isnt enough evidence. But there could be more evidence that they obtained there. Also, the question of what trump knew because they went in there and they didnt just, chris, take documents that might relate to Stormy Daniels. They took Business Records from the trump organization. Remember, we dont nope what theyre going to uncover because Michael Cohen was also involved, for example, in the moscow tower deal related to russia. So this could open up a thicket of Additional Information that comes out in all these documents they sized. Chuck the old phrase an immoveable object, the president says youre not going to touch my Business Affairs he is. He is. He, bob mueller or the u. S. Attorney in manhattan has the Legal Authority to do so. I think thats a really important point here, chris. I dont want to lose that point. This is done pursuant to law. This is done pursuant to the requirements of the Fourth Amendment to the constitution. Which says that to take this stuff, you need probable cause. But you need more than that. Heidis right. Administratively you have to go to the very top of the department of justice and you have to have a federal judge agree that you have probable cause. Isnt there the prosecutorial discretion. Sure. Just to take the president s side for a moment. If you were controlling mueller, he would say limit your investigation to russia and you aint got nothing, do you . Now, obviously mueller is not looking at it that way. So prosecutorial discretion is important but its too early for prosecutorial discretion. First you gather the facts, then determine whether or not someone should had prosecuted and for what they ought to be prosecuted. Yes, but you dont exercise that discretion normally in the middle of is it your investigation. Would you investigate everything about the president . Is that whats going on . As long as you have legitimate leads, its predicated on factual information, you go ahead and you investigate the president. Paul, let me get to the big question. This is the president talking through his spokesperson, Sarah Huckabee sanders that he has the right to the fire mueller. Mueller is proceeding ahead like a juggernaut. Ive said before he seems like an iceberg. You dont know how big he is underneath the water. They charge, they indict 13 russians out of nowhere and go all over the place. Now he pops up in these offices in new york, taking all the computer, the phone, he goes to the hotel room, he goes to the house. I mean, it is a complete cleanup job of anything to do with his sort of secret lawyer, the lawyer that we all believe trump uses for private matter. Not all legal. Not any of them illegal for sure but the quiet stuff. Hes not got it all. Yeah, so Rod Rosenstein didnt take the loyalty pledge. James comey didnt take at loyalty at this time pledge. Michael cohen took the loyalty pledge possibly to the extent of committing crimes on behalf of his client, the president of the United States. And so what mueller is looking at now is anything dirty that cohen has ever done. We know his strategy, chris, he likes to get people to plead guilty and then turn them against the president of the United States. So again, i think hes looking ultimately at trying to flip cohen. Theres an Attorney Client privilege issue but cohen is kind of like roy cohn. Hes kind of like mr. Fix it. If hes doing things not on behalf of lawyer, not representing him as a lawyer but trying to help him with his business, thats not protected by the privilege. The other thing not protected by the privilege is trying to evade criminal activity by your client. The New York Times reports mr. Trumps advisers have spent the last 24 hours trying to convince the president not to the making an impulsive decision that could put him in more legal jeopardy. However the president continued to vent his frustrations on twitter this morning, calling the probe a total witch hunt and claiming that Attorney Client privilege is dead. Let me go to michael. Its not a witch hunt. How many people now face a serious indictment in the how many people are cooperating . Theres an awful lot of crime around the president. It may not all involve or any of it involve necessarily collusion with the russians but theres an awful lot of people with problems willing to sell themselves out and save themselves and nail trump. By this going up to new york and not being run out of muellers offers, the executing of the search warrant gives a little more legitimacy to the process. Its not just bob mueller and these out of control democrats that that are biased and out to get the president. Now these are line prosecutors in new yorking that have gone ahead and done this. The other thing is that with the special counsel youre talking about all these different things. They have the resources to look at all these different things. The president is this big public target. Lots of things come in. They hear a lot of things. They do a lot of interviews. Theres a lot of subpoenas. The last thing they want to do is close up their investigation some day and have missed something. So you turn over every rock. You have a sitcom and ted danson ends up on another show and a new show called a spinoff. We have a spinoff investigation here now thanks to yesterday. Its not part of the mule ter investigation. Its another part. Its related to it. It comes from because it was in some way triggered by mueller but its now the prosecutors in new york. Its not just a spinoff. But there could potentially be a strategy here, chris in, terms of removing this from any reach from the executive branch, right . Now were seeing some of these investigations farmed out to state attorneys who are outside the reach of the executive. Were seeing this at the same time that the rhetoric, you just saw from Sarah Huckabee sanders and were seeing it also on the hill, chris from, republicans now talking about potentially getting at mueller possibly rosenstein. Mike the schmidt youve got a story running that the president tried to fire mueller in december. There was a story in december about a subpoena that had gone to Deutsche Bank that said that that was the initial report said it was directed at the president and his business dealings. The president did not like there idea. And this is gets at this issue of the red line, the looking into his finances and seriously considered firing mueller at that point. It didnt get to that point because they were able to figure out the president s lawyers that the story was wrong, there was some discussion with muellers office. But it just shows how when the president thought that mueller had gone beyond that line, he was willing to do this or certainly willing to seriously consider it. Now, you have to understand though, the president has talked a lot in the past year about firing mueller. And sometimes his aides have ignored him, sometimes theyve slow walked him. In the. Who does he fire first . How does he fire him. He has to fire rosenstein. Does very to get rid of sessions and put in a reappoi reappointment or someone else in the agency . Heres how i think it would work. The president has enormous powers as head of the executive branch. One of his powers would be to repeal the special counsel regulations. Once they are repealed, he could either fire mueller or order someone to fire mueller. Its not entirely clear what the path is. How does he repeal it. Its not a statute, its a regulation. As the head of the executive branch he has authority tort repeal or prom you great regulations. Can he do it, i think the answer is yes. Go ahead. People say it would be a constitutional crisis if he does that. It wouldnt be a constitutional crisis. Because the remedy is clearly spelled out. Impeachment. It would be a political crisis, however, because it would be up to the republicans who control the house to act. And if im advising trump as his lawyer, i might say call their bluff. Well, let me ask you, paul, lets talk this in terms of the smart move for trump. Lets assume youre his lawyer right now. It looks to me like this can iceberg coming at his titanic is going to get him eventually because it keeps looking and looking and looking for ways in which he may have broken the law. It is like that. Maybe its all legitimate within the prosecutorial discretion and mandate after the special counsel to find anyplace that later on can turn up as a criminal violation of this president. The odds are having come out of new York Real Estate and being donald trump they will find something. If youre trump, what do you do knowing that . You have your lawyer, first of all, you get a lawyer you. Get a good criminal defense lawyer and i have him make the case to mueller that this Investigation Centers around collusion and unless mueller comes up with evidence that trump himself conspired to steal the election, then anything else is he off the table or some kind of clear allegations of obstruction of justice or frankly, i dont think we would see obstruction charges without really clear evidence of collusion against account president. Thats the president s best case to make that he wasnt involved with the russians directly in trying to steal the election. Again, if mueller has evidence of that, then all bes are off for the president. Chuck, i still agree with paul on that. I think to win this case for the american people, that means the center, not the hard right but the center and the left which you already have much of the left on impeachment. To win the case you have to show he involved himself with the russians you cant just find we couldnt find anything on collusion but we found this other stuff. I dont think that will pass muster. Whats your belief. I think youre right. Im going to defer to you politically because i dont know politics the way you do. Legally thats not the case. Legally if they first of all. I asked the political question because the house representatives needs 218 to impeach. Right. You need 67 senators or 68 to convict and emove from office. Thats a high were talking about a high barrier. Thats a very high barrier. If the only resolution would be impeachment meaning if we decide you cant charge a sitting president and i think by the way thats probably true, then politically youre absolutely right. If you can charge a sitting president , then in my mind the question is a legal one and not a political one. Heidi . Where are we at . The timing is interesting. What does mueller need to win to put it bluntly . What does he need to win in history that this whole thing was purposeful. Look at his history in the prosecuting previous cases like enron. There were waves of charges. The first wave in the enron case where is obstruction of justice. I think all along, weve all said that that is the low hanging fruit especially when hes bringing in people like hope hicks who were on that plane drafting inaccurate statements, that is the easiest, the collusion that could go on for many, many more months and maybe years. Do you think michael, were getting near at end of the segment. Are you thinking the fact that trump was thinking of firing him in december in your reporting for tomorrow morning, do you think possibly mueller is somewhat gaming this, i dont mean it negatively, pushing trump because he thinks hes a bad customer thinking he might spring loose and fire him and therefore, make the case for obstruction bigtime. No, i dont think so. I dont think he needs to. The president seems to inflict himself in different ways without the help of others. If you look at all of these questions, why was mueller appointed, what is mueller looking at, much of it including the president s own political problems outside of mueller come back to things he did himself. And were not existential things that came ot him. Cant put it better. Michael, heidi, chuck and paul, coming up today the White House Press secretary said they believe at the white house the president has the power to fire Robert Mueller who is prosecuting him. What happens if trump does it . What do republican dozen then . They say muellers not in danger but trump is clearly thinking about firing him pep thought about doing it in december and even close allies are warning the president not to do it. Who is going to stop trump now . John kelly . Give me a break. Plus the raid on trumps Attorneys Office comes as the president is considering a military strike on syria. That could come as early as tonight. As trump decides what to do in syria, hes dealing with more staff exis and investigation hanging right over his head now. The raid yesterday on Michael Cohen is just the latest example of the smell of scandal surrounding trump and his administration and it starts at the top. Fi