Kavanaugh. But will it go far enough . And well hear from Attorney Michael Avenatti who wants his client, Julie Swetnick, to be included in the probe. Weeks ago, there was hope from republicans that Brett Kavanaugh would be sitting on the Supreme Court as its newest justice when the new term begins tomorrow. But today they face a very different reality as the fbi opens a Background Investigation amid multiple allegations of Sexual Misconduct against him. The fbi started right away on friday. But as of now, attorneys for dr. Christine blasey ford say they havent been contacted by investigators. Another accuser, deborah ramirez, has agreed to cooperate with the investigation. And nbc news reported the white house has limited the scope of that investigation, including a specific witness list that were told does not include Julie Swetnick who has alleged that kavanaugh was at a party where she was sexually assaulted in 1982. Or former classmates of kavanaughs who contradict some of his testimony on thursday. President trump tweeted on saturday, quote, nbc news incorrectly reported, as usual, that i was limiting the fbi investigation of judge kavanaugh and witnesses only to certain people. Actually, i want them to interview whoever they deem appropriate at their discretion. Please correct your reporting. And heres the president at the white house on saturday. Will you give the fbi free reign to investigate where they they have free rein. Theyll do whatever they do. Theyll be doing things that we never even thought of. And hopefully at the conclusion, everything will be fine. Joining us tonight from the Supreme Court, nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. And with me on set, intelligence and National Security reporter ken dilanian. And New York Times political reporter and msnbc contributor Jeremy Peters. Thank you all for being here. Ken dilanian, youve been doing a lot of reporting over the weekend as to how this investigation is or isnt limited. Can you help us clear up who is right . The president claims they can talk to anybody. Its our understanding thats not the case. After the president issued that tweet this morning we heard from two sources who said, in fact, nothing had changed. There were strict limits placed on invest investigation by the white House Counsel transmitted to the fbi and those limits remain in place. Theres a witness list of four and does not include dr. Ford which may be why her attorney is saying she hasnt heard from the fbi. Its starting to look like on friday, people thought there was going to be an extensive fbi vfigation probing all aspects of kavanaughs drinking and representations about his yearbook and everything in question. That is not what is happening as far as we can tell. How would the investigation can you just give us some examples of what they could be doing that theyre not allowed to, like perhaps calling the safeway where mark judge worked. Mark judge has said he worked at a grocery store, a safeway in potomac and dr. Ford testified she saw him there. They could verify the records. Were told thats not something theyre doing. Kavanaughs character zagizatio his drinking at yale. Someone said he misrepresented the nature and state of his drinking. That goes to the nature of this Sexual Misconduct because the allegations are it happened while he was drunk. Its something youd think the fbi would want to get to the bottom of. Its our understanding thats off limits, as well. Pete williams, im interested to hear from you. Youre outside the Supreme Court looking at this new term where it looks like well have four and four, total of eight justices to start out this term. Whats your sense from having covered this for a long time of the damage thats already been done to judge kavanaugh and to the court as an institution . I mean, we do still talk about what happened with Clarence Thomas and if judge kavanaugh is confirmed, whats your sense hough this could or maybe not, could follow him . Well, its certainly going to hang over him if he is confirmed, just as in a similar way its hung over Clarence Thomas. And i think there could be some lingering questions about the impartiality of him given the political attack, the nature of the harsh attack on Senate Democrats and some of that undoubtedly will reflect on the court as well. But these things tend to change over time. In terms of the acceptance by other justices of Brett Kavanaugh, remember, they know him. Hes been a Court Appeals court judge just down the street from here for 12 years. Theyve reviewed his decisions. They know him. Theyve read his writings. So, you know, hes going to still have a one vote just like the other justices do if he gets here, and they tend to be very collegial. I just dont know what the effect is. I think for some people it may be a reaffirmation that, a, the confirmation process has become ridiculously political. And secondly, they worry that the court has become political. And were going to have a situation here now where were going to have, no matter who gets confirmed by the way, whether its Brett Kavanaugh or anyone else, well now have five dependably conservative votes, all appointed by republicans and four dependably liberal to moderate votes, all of those justices appointed by democrats. So i think in the minds of many people who were worried about the institution, including john roberts who has made comments about this, theyre worried about that. Pete, theres been some speculation that if kavanaugh doesnt get confirmed that we might face a situation where there would be a vacatincy on t court for the remainder of trumps time in office. Either the president would decline to put someone forward that the democrats would get behind or theyd obstruct anyone he puts forward. Whats your sense that impact could have on the country long term . I find it hard to believe if the kavanaugh nomination for some reason goes down the president wouldnt immediately nominate somebody else because this is he said so often this is important to him. You know how important it is to the base politically. So i find that hard to believe. Whether they can get confirmed or not is another story youre better able to handle. After Justice Anthony kennedy died, the court went over a year with just eight justices. When we have that, we have Supreme Court light. They tend not to decide the difficult questions, but that was when we didnt we had Anthony Kennedy and they were worried that maybe he would pardon me, vote with the liberals. When we have four and four votes and its a tie vote, then you get these diminished decisions. They try to decide cases on the narrowest possible grounds. So it would the court would go on. Most of the business of the Supreme Court is not by close votes but for the highprofile cases, they would probably have to sit out a year or two. Interesting. Jeremy peters, lets talk about the politics of all this for a second because i think one impact that weve started to see emerge, and i feel like this is still shaking out a little bit, but where kavanaugh was important before for the base, he is now the absolute most important issue. You talked to somebody like joe manchin who maybe was going to get away with voting no to keep his colleagues in the senate happy. He didnt want to make everybody mad but now people at home are sending him a different message about how important this is. Kavanaugh has become this avatar for conservative grievance. Hes i wouldnt at all be surprised if you start seeing his face on tshirts at trump rallies because that primal cry that he issued at his hearing on thursday was exactly what conservative voters wanted to hear. Its exactly what President Trump wanted to hear and we know that he was very pleased with what he saw. So theres this pentup sense of the conservatives cant fight back as hard as theyd like to. That theyre punished for their political beliefs. Theyre told theyre too politically incorrect wasnt that the story of donald trump from the beginning . Exactly. Theres this real sense, legitimate or not, that they are punished more than liberals are. So when you feel that way, when you feel youre constantly being judged or told what you can and cannot say, watching a performance like we saw on thursday from judge kavanaugh is all the afofirmation they neede. Its a battle cry and stuck it to the left as far as conservatives are concerned in the same way that donald trump does because as a lot of people smarter than i am have observed, probably the most powerful thing about President Trumps appeal with his base is not that hes conservative because hes not. Because he hasnt been. Hes antileft. For sure. Pete williams, thank you so much for sticking around around your nightly live shot to join us. Im sure well have another busy week near washington. Thank you. We also mentioned the name Julie Swetnick earlier who sources tell susnot on the fbis witness list in the kavanaugh probe. Swetnick claims she attended more than ten house parties in the 1980s where she witnessed Brett Kavanaugh and mark judge engaging in Sexual Misconduct, including putting drugs or alcohol in punch so women could be gang raped by male partygoers. We should make clear that swetnick has not accused kavanaugh of committing any crimes against her and kavanaugh has strongly denied all of the allegations. Still, swetnicks lawyer Michael Avenatti has been urging the fbi to investigate while some republican senators have seemed to dismiss the allegations out of hand. Im shocked that our colleagues would embrace this kind of uncorroborated, outrage ow salacious allegation considering the facts and the timing and the representation by Stormy Daniels lawyer. Mr. Avenattis allegations were so scandalous that the Ranking Member omitted his clients most scandalous accusations of you as a criminal mastermind essentially. Youve got people like the oneman circus show, Michael Avenatti. He is not a serious person, and he is not interested in your future. Joining me now is the attorney for Julie Swetnick, Michael Avenatti. Thanks for being on the show. I appreciate it. I want to start kind of why senator sasse left off which is a question ive been hearing from democrats on capitol hill over the course of the past week which is, you have political ambitions. You have not been quiet about those political ambitions. You were just in New Hampshire yesterday, i was told. And some democrats have said, if Michael Avenatti, as a political animal, really cared about making sure that judge kavanaugh wasnt on the bench, he would have sent his client to another lawyer. Can you respond to that . I am not at liberty to say, but i you as well as i know that occasionally information has to be withheld. So whats interesting kasie, first of all, i havent heard that from any democrats. I have yet to hear any democrat go on the record. I just dont believe it. Its a bunch of faun sennonsens. They believe it they should step up and use their name and go on the record. Go ahead. Let me finish. I have a 20year track record. I have over a billion dollars in verdicts and settlements representing hardworking people around thus country. Im the current trial lawyer of the year from public justice for the entire nation. I got a 454 million jury verdict last year. Im one of the finest trial lawyers in this country. Ive represented one porn star in my 20year career. Ive represented republicans. Ive represented democrats. These republicans are going after me and donald trump are going after me for one reason and one reason only. Because they see me as a considerable threat. And they should see me as a threat because i am a considerable threat. Now as it relates to my client, my client came to me because i am a very good lawyer. And i represent my clients, and i do a very good job as evidenced by the last 18 years of trial practice and the work that ive done for Stormy Daniels. Ive done an exceptional job. Everything that i have promised, i have delivered. I have not been found to make one false representation. Ive made prediction after prediction that has come true. My client submitted a sworn declaration from the Senate Judiciary committee. Its not my declaration. Its not my signature. Its her declaration under oath. Okay. She has multiple security clearances. Now ms. Ramirez is being interviewed by the fbi. Has thats exactly what i was going to ask you about. Has the fbi come to you . Have you gone to them . What is the official status of any conversations between you two . I cant go to the fbi. At least as it relates to this particular matter. We have made it known to the Senate Judiciary committee. Ive made it known publicly for a week now. We want an fbi investigation. My client wants to sit down with fbi agents immediately. Ive made that clear. Ive asked for it repeatedly. We havent heard from the fbi. This investigation is a scam. Its a sham and its a con job. And we know that because the white house is controlling who gets spoken to, who gets investigated, and who gets interviewed. How much does it take how difficult is it for a couple fbi agents or even one to call me on the phone and ask to speak to my client for an hour or two . Thats not a lot of resources. They dont are want want to tal client because theyre afraid of what she may say. And if senator cruz and other senators on that panel and donald trump, if they really believe that my client was bogus, that what she said had no basis in reality, you know what theyd be doing . Theyd be begging for the fbi to meet with her so shed lie to these fbi agents which is a crime, as you know, punishable by prison time. So she would lie to them and they could make an example out of her and they can wipe me off the face of the planet by discrediting me. Why dont they want to speak to my client . Do you have are you aware of any people or potential witnesses who were at these parties who can corroborate her story . Many. Many witnesses. Ive spoken to many witnesses. Ive been clear for the last week that there are corroborating witnesses. We just didnt make this up out of whole cloth. I didnt just reach into the ether and find some woman to sign a false declaration. Im not accusing you of that. I know youre not, but others are. And its offensive. And its disgusting. And these senators are going after me because they see me as a big threat. And i am a big threat to them. And thats and theyre afraid of what my client might tell them. And theyre afraid of what my client might tell the fbi. We have evidence. We have facts. We have witnesses. And i dont understand for the life of me how you can call this investigation anything other than a sham and a con job if they are refusing to sit down with my client even for an hour. And you dont have any concerns that your client is could be better represented by somebody who is less political . No, not at all. Absolutely not. I do a phenomenal job for my clients and ive done a phenomenal job for the last 18 years. And anyone that looks at the track record of the last six to seven months in the Stormy Daniels case, id challenge anybody to do a better job. Ive given countless interviews. Check the legal filings and legal work weve done. Its been aplus. Lets talk for a second before i let you go about your own political ambitions. Where are you in thinking through the process, and quite franckl ly frankly, theres a lot of people who want to run for the democratic nomination in 2020 . How do you think your potential competitors stack up when taking on the president . Ive received an incredible response every state that ive gone to. I think ive surprised a lot of people. Ive received a lot of encouragement in various states to run. Ive received a lot of enkourngment from the Democratic National committee and Senior Leadership within the committee frankly to run. N people a fighter. And people want somebody that can beat donald trump. I dont care how much experience you have. I dont care how deep you are on policy. If you cant beat President Trump, you dont have any business running because if you cant beat donald trump, you go home. I want to ask you as well you have proposed a litmus test that includes expanding the Supreme Court to 11 people. Senator Amy Klobuchar said im not going to have Michael Avenatti tell me what the litmus tests are this election and that youre just trying to make a splash. Your response . Ive been making a splash for six or seven months. I respect the senator. Im not trying to tell her what the litmus test is. Im telling her what i think the litmus test is. And, you know, some of these folks that are going to run for president , where were they when they allowed the garland seat to be stolen from president obama . Where were they on that seat . Had they done what they needed to do in connection with the garland seat, then there wouldnt be so much angst over this particular seat. Michael avenatti, thank you so much. Im very interested to see the um pa um pact youre going to have on this debate. They now see his nomination as too big to fail. And well talk about whether the fbi investigation gives undecided senators more cover to vote for Brett Kavanaug