Then candidate trump is heard discussing a possible payment to purchase the story rights of a former playboy model Karen Mcdougal about an affair the president had in 2005, of which the president denies. Nbc cannot confirm whether its been edited or altered, heres what was played. A warning. It includes a profanity from then candidate president donald j. Trump. Let me know whats happening. Okay . Oh. Oh maybe because of this it would be better if you didnt go. You know . Maybe because of this. For that one, you know, what you can do to get rid of this, because its so false, what theyre saying. Its such bullshit. Um i think i think this goes away quickly. I think its probably better. To do the charleston thing. Just this time. Yeah. In two weeks its fine. I think right now its better. You sgloe okay, hknow . Okay. Thanks, honey. You take care of yourself. Im proud of you. Whats up, mike . Great poll. Making progress. Big time. And you guys are couldnt believe it. Whats happening . Can we use him anymore . Pastor scott . Mark burns. Talking i dont mean that. Mark burns. Can we use him anymore. No. And just called, a chance, an idea for you. Great. So we. Got served from the New York Times i told you regarding unsealing the divorce papers with ivana. Were fighting it. Going to never be able to get that. Never. Says dont ever be able get me a coke, please. Dont have a legitimate purpose. A woman that doesnt want a correct, yes. And going there for a while. About two, three weeks now. All you have to do, delay it for even after that, not going to ever be opened. Theres no purpose for it. Told you about charleston. I need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend david, you know . So that im going to do that right way. Ive actually give it to me. And spoken to Alan Weiselberg how to set the whole thing up with what are we going to do . Funding. Yes. And its all the stuff thinking about that. All the stuff. You never know where that company, where hes going to be. Maybe he gets hit by a truck . Correct. So im all over that. Spoke to alan about it. Comes time for financing listen what financing. Well have to pay. Pay cash . No. No, no, no, no, no. All right. Were goingthrough exactly what you heard. Exclusive rights to mcdougals story, purchased never published by the Parent CompanyAmerican Media and chairman, ally of the president , may be the man cohen is referring to when he mentions our friend david. Trump and mcdougal met in the playboy mansion 2006, three months after melania gave birth to trumps youngest son and continued to see trump several months after that, according to mcdougal and he allegedly offered her money. Promised regular columns on aging and wellness and prominently feature her on two of the companys magazine covers. When the wall street journal reported the payment four days before the election, Trump Campaign spokeswoman hope hicks said, we have no knowledge of any of this. Lets bring in Senior Reporter of vanity fair and nbc news and msnbc contributor emily jane fox. Good morning. Youve been wired in to Michael Cohens world a very long time. In fact here yesterday talking about a different piece of this story. Just walk us through a little bit of what we heard last night and how the decision was made by lanny davis, the attorney for Michael Cohen, and by Michael Cohen, to make it public . Reporter the most interesting thing about the tape it is very clear that in the height of the election President Trump was clearly plugged in to all that Michael Cohen was doing. So whether that was this payment made, or the talk of the payment made to ami or something about his divorce papers being unsealed, or not being unsealed. What is clear is that the president knew about everything that was going on, and i think that was a very calculated strategy made by Michael Cohen and his attorneys yesterday. Since friday, people in cohen world have been telling me that the narrative that Rudy Giuliani put out about this leaked recording on friday was not accurate. That was not the full story and there was much more to know when the transcript or the recording would actually come out. I dont think anyone believed it would come out so soon, but what we saw over the weekend was a lot of growing frustration from cohen and the people around him. This narrative they believed was not accurate. People were really believing it and cohen believes that there is a calculated strategy in the works from people around the president to discredit him, to make him look like he had nothing to do with the president , that this, the decisions he made were made on his own and the president had no idea. So watching cable news all weekend, watching cable news yesterday, the frustration continued to mount and the president had waived privilege for this recording. I think there was sort of a well what are we waiting for . Why not get the narrative straight. Let the questions we have listening to the recording were posed to the American Public and let them decide what they think. Michael schmidt, listening to the 2 minutes, 51 seconds we just played there, the dispute seems to be between Rudy Giuliani and Michael Cohens team how the payment was discussed what does the term cash mean . Did the president suggest pay cash or saying dont pay cash . End of the day, two men talking two months before the president ial election about a payment, stipulate a payment never made to a former playboy model to keep her quiet . Yes. The dispute is about the payment. When we wrote friday about the existence of this recording, rudy said, look, this shows the president wanted it to be paid by check, to be above board and he did not want it paid by cash. You heard from the audio it is not nearly that clear, but not nearly as clear as cohens lawyering make it out to be, its completely clear that the president wanted it to be paid in cash. We do not hear any of the audio right after the point that its initially discussed. So both sides making contradictory claims about the tape. The tape not being the clearest. We only have a small snippet of what they were talking about. At the end of the day, thats only really an issue thats come up because of the claims giuliani made on friday as he tried to explain why the tape was not bad for the president , but ultimately, as you point out, look, this is something they say the president clearly knew about it. And cohen is trying to reset his life as not being Donald Trumps bullet taker or worse a punching bag for Donald TrumpsDefense Strategy where he takes the bullets. This is a turn for him. Its a new resolve to tell the truth no matter what even if it endangers him. The white house declined comment and referred questions to Rudy Giuliani who disputed the cohens team claim on trumps use of the word cash. Major point is that its outrageous that someone would tape his client. Surreptitiously and foolhardy to try and yell and scream and make believe whats on the tape. I agree the tape is a little hard to hear but assure you that we listened to it numerous, numerous times, and the transcript makes it quite clear at the end that President Trump says, dont pay with cash. Jonathan lemire, you smoke to Rudy Giuliani last night. What did he tell you and is it actually clear the president is saying, dont pay with cash . Giuliani told me late last night they have the recording and enhanced it. A tactic he would do as a prosecutor. Go after the mafia, same thing. Muffled recording try to bring the better sound out of it. He says in that recording its clear the president is saying, dont pay with cash and released a transcript that seems to back that up. Of course, they have not released that actual recording. We havent heard that yuet, relying only on the recording Michael Cohen put out. This backs up the president s argument. Their camps argument. He didnt do anything wrong. Trying to do it above board making the point earlier in the conversation, you heard in the tape, discussed a corporation to pay it. Saying, well, giulianis argument is that is showing if donald trump, then candidate trump and Michael Cohen are trying to obscure this, they wouldnt have set up a corporation. Wouldnt be discussing it by check. They believe that this is a, that cohens camp is trying to muddy the waters here and change the argument to try to attack the president and they feel comfortable that thats not the case. Also said they have 12 other tapes theyre going through. They dont believe trump is on them, but rather its cohen talking about trump with third parties. They have said they will, theyre debating whether to release them. John heilemann, in listening to that tape, i dont know what you glean from it other than the fact a lot of names are mentioned. One of the most important probably our friend david and the question why does the tape end so abruptly . Clearly the tape must be in control of Michael Cohen, but i dont know what else you find out in that tape if youre a prosecutor . Neither do i. I think that the largest questions revolve around context. Exactly whats happening before and after . Whos donald trump talking to when he seems to be having a telephone conversation, whos in and out of the room at various times . Whats the reference to the charts schi charlottesville conversation that comes up twice during the conversation. To me, from 30,000 feet what is interesting about this most of us is that for a long time among Donald Trumps adversaries in the legal realm, you had bob mueller, who doesnt speak. Then Michael Avenatti who does. See a lot. Michael cohen did not have a representative who got involved in the gamesmanship and now does. Whatever you think of lanny davis, his motivations why hes doing this, hes back and he, like Michael Avenatti is a skilled practitioner of the dark arts and the garish arts of media lawyering. So the president now, we now are in that place and we had this back in the Clinton Administration, had it at other times. We now have Rudy Giuliani and Michael Avenatti, lanny davis, all engaged in all of it, i dont have a problem with any of it, but all of them have obscure mot va motivations not telling precisely the truth, jesting on their clients behalf and taking us into a new legal carnival kind of element of this story that is going to raise, well see a lot of stories like this that are going to come out in dribs and drabs and the interpretive prisms put on, stark conflict and you wont know what to believe until we get into a court if we ever do. And Rudy Giuliani has obviously been doing that on the president s behalf. To a certain extent, Michael Cohen at a disadvantage. For sure. Betsy woodruff, trying to sort through all of the details of this and the context, et cetera, jonathan talked about exactly who who said that cash and this and that and the other thing. My question is still, why did the president s team want that out there . Perhaps they do believe end of the day whatever they have been able to enhance on this recording is clear enough that it clears the president . Thats right. Giuliani asserted last week there was material on this tape that was going to be exculpatory, listening to the tape a couple times doesnt seem to be quite nearly at clear as giuliani claimed. Part of the reason that the cohen camp was so willing to go out on a limb last night and put this tape out there. Its interesting that both sides are sort of alleging that this tape is somehow going to be a magic bullet that clears their name. That clearly isnt the case. One thing i can tell you, though, is that cohens camp is increasingly aggressive. What were seeing from lanny davis. Additionally from talking to a person close to cohen last week, i can tell you people in cohens circle of increasingly encourage him to affirmatively go to Robert Mueller. Dont know for a fact cohen has anything that could be relevant to the Mueller Probe but hope among critics of the president close to cohen he might have snag could be relevant to that investigation and would like to see him circumvent, perhaps a hopscotch over his negotiations with the Southern District of new york and go directly to the special counsel. A couple interesting elements. Content of tapes, and act of releasing the tapes. Lanny davis out. Saying, Michael Cohen is on a new path. Its a reset button to tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may. All the questions about might mike many cohen turn on donald trump, looks like the beginning of that. Is does. We saw in the press, a couple months ago, quotes from friends. Attributed to, people close to Michael Cohen saying he wants his legal fees paid, willing to talk to mueller. What seemed like an effort to strongarm the president of the United States through the media. A fraught vstrategy but were beginning to see the fruit of that materialize. Back to the 30,000 foot perspective. The cash, no cash thing seems terrain the white house thinks is favorable. Its weeds, difficult to navigate and seems irrelevant. Extending to a broader perspective you see a president who denied through a spokesperson the president says he nerve her a relationship with mcdougal. Thats flat out wrong. Solidifying the fake news narrative your ability to suspend this belief to appeal to negative partisanship, i dont like the media, im going to believe the president over the media. This is really asking you to believe the president over your ears and eyes. And n knowledge of this. Donald trump on that tape two months before the election does not sound like a man who had no knowledge of this. No. They calmed it, again, an old story just more fake news. A quote from an unnamed spokesperson when the story broke in february. This isnt about news anymore. This is about the president speaking on tape, speaking to his attorney. The media is removed from this. And the value of this tape and others we havent heard, obviously, maybe as many as 13 altogether. It, part of this tape we just heard gets to what investigators prosecutors continually try to get to, and in this case, try to get to that the president of the United States, and its state of mind. Whats his state of mind . During the ongoing course of action in this case, trying to figure out what to do about Karen Mcdougal . Is there going to be a payment . How much is the payment going to be . Whats his state of mind jrch . Yes. A number of points made here. A conversational familiarity between the two. This san ongoing conversation, its clear, these two are having about problems the president has. The fact he implicitly acknowledges Karen Mcdougal is a problem, and says all we have to do get through the next couple of weeks, he recognized the political peril and the relationship he denied having were to become public, regardless, paid with cash a check a vehicle or not. Michael schmidt, a question raised a second ago. This is obviously all interesting. It points out ways in which the president lied towards the end of the campaign. Points to potential campaign and finance violations but to raise the question that betsy wood driwooddruf raced, where the story is headed, existence of tapes, is there a place where this story overlaps and crosses over into the realms bob mueller cares about . Mueller took the whole issue of Michael Cohen and his reship with the president and these payments and that was given by the Deputy Attorney general to these prosecutors in new york. Mueller does not own that. I dont see any direct nexus between this tape and that payment and what mueller is doing, but what it is, is that cohen has a general Justice Department problem, and will the Justice Department allow him to deal with them together . Will he be able to go to the Justice Department, say, look, i know i have exposure in new york. I may have this exposure in this russia i may not. What can you give me in exchange for my information. Mueller needs to talk to Michael Cohen. Cohens name is in the dossier. Michael cohen tried to arrange a business deal in russia during the campaign. If mueller is going to complete his investigation he needs to talk to cohen. Does cohen go to prosecutors in new york or go to mueller saying look, ill willing to make a deal, settle this do it all together and make a Global Cooperation deal with the judge is department. Thats the question we have to see. Emily jane fox, as we wrap up here, your sense of what Michael Cohens team wants now. Jonathan lameres reporting that giuliani said theres 12 other tapes that theyre reviewing, trying to decide whether to waive privilege on those tapes. Is that something that team cohen wants out in the open . I think there is going to be a calculated strategy what serves Michael Cohen best Going Forward. Whether that means withholding some things so he has cards to show investigators. If he does decide to cooperate, or if there is going to be more of this kind of drip, drip, drip leaking, then