Manafort trial and nancy cook and from politico. And in this article, five or six pages, it is a deep and intense read. What do you take away from this . Obviously the headline being the white House Counsel is cooperating with mueller . Hey there, richard. First thing to know is don mcgahn has a different motivation than do the president s outside attorneys. So don mcgahn used himself as representing the office of the president. Hes protecting not trump the man, but the office of the presidency. So this has to do with the view of the president s prior legal team, the first legal team and in theyre view was their client the president told them they did nothing wrong so in their view, to cooperate with to collaborate with the special counsel meant it might bring about a quicker end to the overall investigation. Which is something that President Trump said he wanted. So don mcgahn taking the view of the overall team that cooperation was something that was good to do, yes, he did were told by the New York Times, were led to believe based on this reporting that he did cooperate fully with that probe. That opens up an entirely different realm of questions just about what now the special counsel knows about the president s intent to this question of obstruction of justice. Nancy cook, unprecedented has been the word to describe this. If it does come to this report does come to pass and these are veteran beltway reporters. We both have Michael Schmidt and maggie haberman. But what a water shed of information, for months that mueller had access to. Well it just means don mcgahn is the white house top attorney. To put it in context, he has been in the room for all of the major decisions that the president has made and he and the president also have had a pretty tense relationship. The president lashed out at him on a a number of occasions and that means that a real white house insider is giving the mueller team a road map of how the president reached these decisions and the president hasnt always gotten along with mcgahn and one of the things i found most interesting in the article is that mcgahn is cooperating in part because he views this as a way to save himself and make sure he doesnt take the fall so this is the white house back biting taken to the enth degree and he needs to cooperate otherwise there was a concern that trump or others in the white house would try to blame mcgahn for obstructing justs jus just justice or other charges. On the reporting it reports this is a large scale, that the books were open if you will, to the white House Counsel for now months and perhaps going back to last fall, number one. And number two, volunteer interviews an number three, totaling some 30 hours of discussio discussions over the last nine months. How big of a deal, chris. That is a huge amount of time for any witness to be talking to prosecutors in this case. But especially a witness this level in the white house. When you are investigating a case like this, you want people with firsthand knowledge of key moments ant the chronology and don mcgahn has been there, the firing of james comey and the pressure on Jeff Sessions. So he could prove to be a key witness for the prosecution as they kind of dig into what the president was thinking, when he was he thinking it and what was his intent behind some of his decisions and it is not just the length of time. But it is the first and insights that he could provide. What probably sticks out to you, harry, as you are a master of history, that this white house has decided to pass on Attorney Client privilege and pass on executive privilege it appears from the reporting as well. At least they did. I mean, the analogy here would be john dean who testified plenty and was able to, because of his relationship as white House Counsel, which represents the office of the president and not the person himself. But a couple of things really stand out to me. First, mcgahn is an insider. Hes a washington lawyer. When he spoke with mueller, he would not have been at all squirrely or deceptive or concealing. He would have played it as an open book because that is how you have to play it. Second, there is a great detail in the New York Times story where mcgahn occasionally refers to the president of the United States as king kong for his volcanic outburst and we know that trump is erratic and volatile and some of the most important testimony will be when he really blows a gasket and is unencumbered and probably said the truth and mcgahn will have been armed with that and now mueller is as well. It is pretty significant. And im going to read to show the intertwinings that are happening at the white house. Er go the lack of trust. And it says here by schmidt and haberman. That mr. Burk, who rupt who represents mr. Mcgahn could not understand where mr. Trump was willing to allow mr. Mcgahn to speak freely to the special counsel and feared mr. Trump was setting up mr. Mcgahn to take the blame for any possible illegal acts of obstruction. So jeff, another little tidbit des not not the best friends relationship and getting along and fighting sometimes but working side by side but they are gaining the potential that the president is setting up his very own white House Counsel to take the fall. It certainly is a window into some of the conversations and some of the concerns happening within the white house. Certainly outside of the white house weve seen the very public shakeup of the president s outside legal team. You saw john dowd gave us a comment and he left the legal team sometime ago in part because he didnt think that the president trusted his advice and thought the president was ignoring him. So weve seen again how the president s team of lawyers have changed their relationship, changed their public standing in direct relation to hip just based on his own personality and his own temperament and his own willingness to trust their advice. And since those last nine months, which weve all seen, nancy, weve not seen the open book policy that chris dowd is talking about. At least in his response to todays report john dowd, excuse me. But it appears once the open book policy started, if you will, or around that time, when done mcgahn was being open about being open about his feelings with this case with mueller, things started to accelerate. Could it be that here don mcgahn had offered, if you will, the kindling to where were at today in the mule he is investigation. I dont want to speculate. But as the other guests have said, he was in the room for all of this and so what hes giving mueller is direct firsthand knowledge of key conversations that the president had. Hes been in the oval office when President Trump has blown up at attorney general Jeff Sessions for not recusing himself from the russia investigation. He was ints matt he was invole decision to fire james comey and i believe he argued against it and he could say this is what happened and the time line and people in the oval and how the president reacted. And he is a washington veteran. Hes a lawyer. So he really know what he can and cant say. Hes a careful individual. And i think that he will give mueller really serious information that could hurt the president and i think that the New York Times reporting made it seem like both President Trump and his legal team at least at the time underestimated the potential exposure they were opening up to by letting mcgahn meet with mueller so many times. 15 seconds, it is called that this exposure to mcgahn is insane. From the audio here. 15 seconds to. When you are investigating an obstruction of justice, oftentimes the actual action, the potential target could be taking is not illegal or out right but about the thinking behind the action and also it is it is a pattern of action and don mcgahn has seen that pattern and he probably understands that thinking. And that is going to be very helpful to muellers office. Harry litman, youll stick around and Geoff Bennett and chris and nancy cook, thank you for starting us off on this breaking news report coming out of the New York Times just within the last couple of hours. Former cia director john brennan also speaking out for the First Time Since having his clearance revoked and President Trump has already fired back. The president s attack on current and former top officials of the Intelligence Community. Weve got that next. Always lood forward to whats next. And im still going for my best even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. So if theres a better treatment than warfarin, im up for that. Eliquis. Eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. Plus has significantly less major bleeding than warfarin. Eliquis is fdaapproved and has both. So whats next . Seeing these guys. 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I think hes out of control. He is has the Steering Wheel of the american vehicle andn his hands and hes veering wildly right now. Hes trying to preserve and protect himself and so what more demonstration do you want . When things get really bad im glad if his revoking my security clearance will wake people up. Trump responding, has anyone looked at the mistakes john brennan made while serving as cia director. Hell go down as the worst in history and since getting out he has become nothing less than a loud mouth. Partisan political hack who cannot be trust with the secrets to our country. And this latest back and forth as john brennan is getting more support from intelligence and mark some more than 70 intel officials condemning the president s actions in the letters you see there. Joining me now to break it down, harry litman and author david priest. Lets move into this. From what youve seen of director john brennan in this interview, what stood out to you . Well first, he was spectacular in that interview and he very persuasive and hes now he has the sort of rhetorical advantage that he said hes not trying to saver his own security clearance but moving forward on behalf of the others who are imperilled and he has the letter from all directors and deputy directors for the last many years. I think trump has chosen a very formidable enemy and he also i thought john brennan very wisely zeroed in on the real problem which is the slumber of the Congressional Republicans who are enabling this wild behavior. If anything can wake them from their reflexive acquiescence to trump and when you have a variation of national it has to the got to be there. I think it is this going to be a history mistake for the President Trump and it is about as abusive act of president ial power and constitutional one as hes done. Lets reflect on that by going to another part of the interview and well go to you, david. The other people on the socalled enemies list now, i think this is just another example of mr. Trump trying to frighten and intimidate others. But i could tell you having worked in the National Security and Intelligence Community for many, many years, these are not the type of people who will r going to be bullied or intimidated by someone with the likes of mr. Trump. He goes on to say that he believes the president is drunk with power and so david, when we look at from the New York Times, they logged all of the attacks against the russia inquiry to date and perhaps reflective what brennan is called being drunk with power. Is that what were seeing. It is the kind of thing myself and several other dozen colleagues followed up the letter from the former directors and former deputy directors by signing, making many of the same points. That this is a weaponization of security clearances which is something that has not happened before and something that shows, if not desperation, then at least a president casting around for something to try to stem this flow. Because that bar chart shows, yes, hes feeling pressure and walls closing in on the investigation and we find out don mcgahn is talking at great length to bob mueller and weve seen the indictments dropping out of nowhere. It seems as if this is all building up to something and it is something that doesnt look good. So changing the narrative to john brennan and whether you like his speech or not, is a strategy but it is not a particularly good one. Because your focusing in on the very people who have provided National Security for republican administrations and democratic administrations for most of the last three decades and when they are virtually universally united on the fact that this is not a useful strategy for National Security, that means something. And again, they have been critical of director brennan but their objecting to be a signatory on the letter saying the process the president is undertaking and and the way we phrased it is whether or not we agree and some of the people many people on the list disagree with the words john said or the way in which he said them as a former director. But we all defend his ability to say those things. It is called First Amendment guaranteed free speech. There is also this. And that is and you brought this up a second ago, harry, and that is the president is elevating director brennon and this is this is commentary on what hes done so far from eli lake and this is on cnn by the way. John brennan is such an imperfect messenger trump has an instinct for that and he approaches politics like professional wrestling and loog for the foil because he only cares about the base and what he could do to troll his opposition and this is the perfect way to do it. He does have an obligation to put up or shut up. So basically what hes saying here, eli lake from bloomberg, to you, harry, is show some proof. Proof of the unconstitutionality. It is the same ruth marcus made the point this morning. It is the exact same argument as they have with the pardon power and with the discharge. Someone has told trump that it doesnt matter why he does things and that is exactly wrong. So this would be this is a rank violation or response to First Amendment rights, it is no different, no different constitutionally speaking from if he decides to yank security clearances based on someones religious affiliation or their race and we know from the Supreme Court of the United States that doesnt fly. Somehow hes taken the view that he can do he alone in the country and Rudy Guiliani has put it this way, can do what he wants for whatever reason and that is 100 wrong and i think that a court will shortly rebuke him on that. There are issues of bringing it to court. But i think his case is weak. David, 15 seconds. The real issue here isnt about the security clearance and the conversation is about whether john brennan needed the security clearance and whether all of the rest of the people do. That is so not the point. I hope we get to a place where we could have that conversation because there is a legitimate arg to be had there are too many security clearances out there that arent bebeing used for things. That is not the issue. Whether it was used by the president to stifle criticism of himself and that is what were focused on. Great clarity. Thank you. Great to have you both here on a saturday. Justice Department Official bruce ohr could be next to have his security clearance revoked. Were going to explain the president s problem with this video. Ive been making blades here at gillette for 20 years. I bet im the first blade maker youve ever met. Theres a lot of innovation that goes into making our thinnest longest lasting blades on the market. 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