about inequality. amazing. it turns out this is where you are supposed to talk about injustice, not out in public. you aren't supposed to raise uncomfortable topics out there. you need to save that for quiet rooms like this. you aren't supposed to talk about huge income gaps in this country. no, sir. you save that for the quiet room. well, you know what? i had enough of quiet rooms. turn the lights on. get rid of this backdrop. folks, this country doesn't need to be quiet. this country needs to make some noise. i'm done with quiet conversations. when 66% of americans say there's a conflict between the rich and poor, we shouldn't be whispering. we should be shouting. when 1 in 2 americans are poor or struggling, we shouldn't be speaking in hush tones. we should say it loud. when the 400 richest americans have a greater combined wealth than the bottom 150 million, we need to speak out. we need to get loud. willard, we're done with quiet rooms. but i can see why you like them so much. we know to expect this talk from someone who casually makes $10,000 bets. from someone who says this to people who could lose their homes. >> don't try and stop the foreclosure process. let it run its course and hit the bottom. >> let things run their course. that's what you say in the quiet room. that's heartless. but it's consistent with someone who has trouble identifying real people. >> corporations are people, my friend. we can raise taxes on -- of course they are. all the money corporations earn eventually go to people. >> can you hear me now, willard? joining me now with their loud voices are former pennsylvania governor ed rendell, now an nbc news political analyst, and joan walsh, editor at large for salon.com. thank you both for being on the show tonight. >> our pleasure. >> thanks, reverend. >> governor rendell, is this a conversation mitt willard romney and the republicans are hoping not to have this year about income equality? >> sure, but that's a false hope. there's no way we can't discuss that issue when more americans than ever are in poverty, when in my home state, 1 out of every 10 people is on food stamps. i never thought i'd tloif see that. with statistics like that, with hurt and pain like that, it's got to be the number one discussion during this entire election year. and if mitt romney believes he's got a way to put people back to work and to raise incomes, then let's hear it. but don't say we're going to talk about it in quiet rooms. you know what that means. we'll talk about it after the election is over. >> that's exactly right. >> joan, when you -- today, mitt romney went even further. he started trying to show a different, soft, kinder, gentler willard. let me show you what he said. >> i think any time a job is lost is a tragedy. for the family, for the individual that loses the job, it's just devastating. and every time that we invested in the business it was to try and encourage that business to have ongoing life. the idea of making a short-term profit actually doesn't really exist in business because no one wants to buy something or buy stock in a company that's just going to be a short-term success. >> so he says that losing a job is a tragedy. this from the guy who wrote an op ed piece in "the new york times" saying let detroit go bankrupt. this from a guy who bought chopped companies. i mean, do you think that he is beginning to understand how much his track record and the bringing it out is hurting him? >> i think, obviously, he is, reverend al. i mean, mitt romney is the face of the top 1%. he is mr. 1%. and he's providing us with an opportunity. and this primary is providing us with an opportunity to really have a national conversation about income inequality. you know, occupy wall street did a great job opening the doors and starting that conversation. and now you have got a candidate who is tailor made to -- to help people really understand how the very, very wealthy make their money off making money and literally don't care if they throw people out of jobs. they are after efficiency. they are after a profit. that's the bottom line. so, you know, mitt romney is in a position now of having to defend that record. and it's not very much fun for him. >> now, governor, when you look at, it's not just occupy wall street now. i think joan is right. they help to change the conversation. look at this graph of where all americans are on this question from different parties, from different backgrounds. you have republicans, 55% say class conflict between the rich and poor is real. you have independents, 68%. democrats, 73%. how would these figures, you've governed. how would these figures -- do you tell people, let's be quiet about it. you've had to deal with people, i'm sure, that were adverse to whatever decisions you make. >> sure. >> the most insulting thing to tell people in pain is to be quiet about it. suffer but suffer in silence. >> right. what mitt romney's got to do and do it, i think, fairly quickly, even though for the republican base, none of this has hurt him so far. but what he's got to do fairly quickly is say to people, okay, look. the president cares very deeply about people in pain and people who have gone into poverty. but he hasn't been able to do anything about it because he just doesn't know how to run an economy, how to get an economy started. i'm going to tell you how we can put these people back to work. so he's got to change the conversation from, let's not talk about it to, yeah, let's talk about it. it's the central issue facing america today. and i have got a better plan. he's failed. i have a plan that's going to work. if he doesn't quickly move to that dynamic, i think he's sunk. >> joan, when you look at the reality, the reality is that willard lives in quiet rooms. i mean, he has a co-chair of the private equity firm blackstone group doing fund-raising -- two fund-raisers this week. i think he's in west palm beach tonight at a fund-raiser. so i guess quiet rooms is where they do their business. but this is a guy who called proposed tax increase on private equity partners a war and i'm 1939.g him, like when hitler he later, to be fair, apologized for saying that, but he said it. >> but he said it. it is outrageous. i think one of the reasons mitt romney doesn't want to release his tax returns is not so much that it shows he's wealthy, because we all know he's very rich. but because it probably shows that he pays a rather low tax rate given that all of his income comes -- most of his income comes from investmentinv and those tax rates are very different than the tax rates most of us pay on our income. my jaw dropped last week when andrea mitchell asked him, would you release them if you become president, and he wouldn't say yes. every president in history has released his income tax returns. i mean, that is the height of arrogan arrogance. that combined with the quiet rooms comment just shows a sort of elitism and a fear of democracy and what people will really do and think if they knew the truth. >> now, governor, when "the washington post" today called him to release his tax returns, i know even when you run for president if you do public finance you have to disclose everything. so, i mean, this is unprecedented that you are not disclosing things if you are a candidate for the highest office in the land. >> al in the 34 years i've run for office in the last 20 for my two races for mayor and two races for governor, of course, i released my tax returns. there wasn't any question or doubt about it. joan, i'd also like to see bain capital's tax return. >> right. >> that would be very interesting. republicans are always arguing corporate taxviate too high. it's 35%. you saw the "forbes" study out. the top two corporations paid 17%. 17%. so i'd love to see what bain capital paid. >> yeah. >> maybe that's what they are doing in them quiet rooms. joan, i think the other thing that is very disturbing is that when you now are looking at 50% of the country -- i think the exact number is 49% -- that are at poverty level or near it, we're not talking about just sections of the country now. we're talking about almost half the country really have an insecurity about where the future lays for them and their children. and i think the governor is right. if you are not saying this is my plan to restore the economy, to give jobs, to protect you, if all you can say as he said better than most nights, but he still only said the criticisms of the president, really what are you saying? he made a better speech than i've heard him make lately the other night when he won new hampshire but it was all on attacking president obama. i still have no idea what is willard's jobs plan. >> i really don't think he has one. he talks about oh, it's hundreds of pages. but, really, there's nothing that he can articulate because it comes down to the same republican policies of reduced taxes. and so, you know, you made a really excellent point right after that speech when he came up with the line, the bitter politics of envy that, really, it's not about jealousy. it's about justice. we're not envious. we just want fairness. so all he can do is insult people who raise the question and insult the president who, by the way, has created more private sector jobs, i believe, than the bush administration did in eight years, and has -- and even the stimulus. they say the stimulus didn't work. the stimulus worked. it was just too small. while we had the stimulus, employment was rising. so the president knows what to do. the president has a jobs plan, but mitt romney doesn't have a jobs plan. >> governor rendell and joan walsh, thank you both for being with us tonight. ahead, the republican establishment is desperate to stop them. but newt doubled down. he's hammering mitt's record at bain capital, and it's about to get way worse. plus -- we marched, we fought and vowed to recall scott walker. now we're days away from defining the moment in the war against the middle class. big news tonight. and wait until you see the skeleton newt found in willard's closet. it involves mitt, his dog and the roof of a car. you need to see this one. you are watching "politics nation" live on msnbc. ♪ you're singing with a broken string ♪ ♪ tell me what you really mean ♪ do you know what you want? ♪ while beating up on yesterday ♪ ♪ rolling on, moving on [ female announcer ] the space of a small suv. and more ways to connect to your world. ♪ do you know what you are? the all-new prius v from toyota. ♪ do you know? in what passes for common sense. used to be we socked money away and expected it to grow. then the world changed... and the common sense of retirement planning became anything but common. fortunately, td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life. take control by opening a new account or rolling over an old 401(k) today, and we'll throw in up to $600. how's that for common sense? the gop establishment is desperately trying to put the bain genie back in the bottle. but it's about to get worse. >> what the hell are you doing, newt? >> newt's on a mission to take down romney. that's next. the "i'll sleep when it's done" academic. for 80 years, we've been inspired by you. and we've been honored to walk with you to help you get where you want to be. ♪ because your moment is now. let nothing stand in your way. learn more at keller.edu. welcome back to "politics nation." it's taken many months, but republican elites have finally found a reason to rally around mitt romney. they are in a panic over attacks on willard's record at bain. from newt gingrich and rick perry. petrified that it's laying the groundwork for president obama's re-election. their message, don't talk about bain capital in public. save it for the quiet room. >> what the hell are you doing, newt? i'm outraged about what he and rick, who is a very close friend of mine. i'm shocked what they are doing. i'm going to say it's ignorant. dumb. >> now that newt and others do not appear to be in the game, to damage a front-runner makes no sense to me. >> rudy giuliani and jim demint join rush limbaugh, sean hannity and "the wall street journal" in defending romney. but newt is still not backing off. his pac released this ad in south carolina today. >> a group of corporate raiders led by mitt romney, the company was bain capital. more ruthless than wall street. >> pulled the rug out from under our plant. >> everybody was fired. >> they fire people. they cut benefits. they sell assets. >> mitt romney and them guys. they don't care who i am. >> i feel that is a man that destroyed us. >> and it looks like some other republicans didn't get the memo about being nice to mitt and are going rogue. >> governor romney has claimed to have created 100,000 jobs at bain, and, you know, people are wanting to know, is there proof of that claim? that's not negative campaigning. that's fair to get a candidate to be held accountable to what's being claimed. we'll vet within our own party and we'll allow that most prepared candidate to rise to the top. so it's tough. it's rough and tumble, but this is the way that you hear claims absolutely that are being made today. >> joining me now, jonathan capehart from "the washington post" and an msnbc contributor. thanks to both of you for being here tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> jonathan, are there a lot of sarah palins left in the gop who think the bain attacks are fair game. >> i'm actually not surprised -- well, i'm surprised she's revealed herself after many months of being away. but i'm not surprised and actually kind of heartened at her consistency of holding politicians accountable after months of hurling brick bats at president obama and holding him accountable for every utterance. she's now doing that to mitt romney. and i think that republicans who are trying to stop fellow republicans from asking serious and real questions of mitt romney are more focused on the brand of the gop than they are about mitt romney if you ask me. >> now, jackie, would you say that all of this back and forth with the establishment and some of the more popular named establishment republicans trying to tell people don't talk about it. and then you have people like sarah palin coming out. today let me show you both rick perry and newt coming out. watch this -- those attacks today. i want to put it in context. >> i'm saying for a guy to run for president, use his record as the basis for running and then tell us we're not allowed to even ask about his record? >> i'm shocked at how defensive they are. >> this process is about winnowing out individuals who -- and testing whether or not they are a flawed candidate or not. i will tell you that when people can point to where you've made a quick profit and kicked people out of their jobs, that is an issue that's got to be addressed. >> so the context i'm trying to raise is when you have people -- especially with the tea party having shown some strength in south carolina, when you have people like palin coming out saying it's fair game, and perry and gingrich and others acting as if they are almost trying to silence them to hide something, couldn't this backfire on the established republican people that are speaking? >> you know, i don't know that it's just establishment republicans. ron paul came out and said this wasn't a good line of attack. i don't think anyone would call ron paul establishment. at the end of the day, the root of this, it might help romney at the end of the day if he becomes the nominee. think about it. the obama administration was going to go after this anyway. so right now, we're getting some of that vetting over with right now. and while all voters aren't paying attention right now, a lot of them are. and they'll have heard this attack before. much like seamus the dog, which you mentioned earlier. >> how could this help him? >> i think he's developing an answer to this issue now. they are striking back in south carolina now on this, and they are getting people together to had jobs because of bain capital. so i'm just saying it's giving them practice. as far as for the general election. if they get that far. whether this could backfire on the establishment, i don't know because you also have people like jim demint who south carolinians will listen to saying this is a bad call. >> jonathan, the democrats have certainly, it seems like they're not exactly weeping for willard. look at this where david axelrod, president obama's senior strategist tells "the new york times" they will likely just open the floodgates. and an unnamed campaign strategist for the president tells talking point memo having the republicans eat their own actually makes the bain story more potent than we ever could have. >> well, sure. and the reason is because, could you imagine if you had these kinds of attacks coming from the president's re-election campaign or a pro-obama super pac. people could automatically discount it as, oh, it's just the democrats beating up on the republican. what you have now are republicans focusing in like a laser beam on a fellow republican and using arguments and lines that are just tailor made for a general election and tailor -- you just put them out there. you don't even have to -- the president doesn't have to say a word. he can let newt gingrich or rick perry do the talking or any of the other republicans do the talking for them. a couple of things jackie was saying that i wanted to pick up on. one, yes, this helps romney in that he gets to develop his arguments that he's going to have to use come september, assuming he's the nominee. but it could also lay the groundwork for things that the obama campaign might have, you know, waiting once romney is the official nominee. they could have some things that no one knows about right now that could lay on top of things that an already established record. and then in speaking of the establishment, people keep wondering why newt gingrich is doing what he's doing when the establishment is trying to get him to stop. one of the things i think folks should keep in mind, could it be that newt gingrich views himself as the establishment? remember -- >> he was. >> right, exactly. >> or maybe he sees these guys as kids that are -- when he was the guy and they are not going to teach the teacher. >> right. who are you to tell me what to do? >> newt gingrich is also the guy who said the super pac ads were unfair and then now that he has his own super pac, which i might ad, i think it was tonight that sheldon addison is backing away from this ad. saying that, no -- saying it was a source in the las vegas paper that said that he is saying, oh, no, he loves capitalism. no one would say that he doesn't love capitalism and is kind of slinking away from this ad as well. so even the people that are backing gingrich who has marketed himself as the outsider's insider outsider. somewhere along the line. >> the problem you have got here is you have gingrich who was against super pacs. now using one. and you have willard who used all of these tactics against gingrich in iowa now complaining about their using it in south carolina. so it's almost a question of who is the most consistent here or the most inconsistent. but the real question, jackie, around this whole bain thing is this really a question of character? >> that's what they are trying to make it. it certainly doesn't help -- the picture they are trying to paint of romney is as this kind of cold, calculating businessman, right? i mean, that's what's behind all of these tactics. so what the romney campaign, i think, has been trying to do more is getting his family out there, his wife out there, trying to humanize this person who they are -- his opponents, be it democrats or republicans are trying to paint as this cold, calculating, gordon gekko,