Tonight, Andrew Gillum responds. The 11th hour begins now. Good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. Im ali velshi in for brian williams. Day 587 of the Trump Administration brings the sudden news that the west wing attorney who has been the pivotal link to Robert Mueller during the russia investigation is out. White House Counsel don mcgahn will soon be making his exit. Axios was first out with a report this morning. That was quickly followed by this tweet from President Trump. White House Counsel don mcgahn will be leaving his position in the fall shortly after the confirmation, hopefully, of judge Brett Kavanaugh to the United StatesSupreme Court. I have worked with don for a long time and truly appreciate his service. This afternoon trump was asked about the departing white House Counsel. Don mcgahn is a really good guy, been with me for a long time. Privately before this he represented me. Hes been here now almost two years, and a lot of affection for don. According to several reports, mcgahn did not know in advance about trumps plans to announce his departure. The Washington Post spoke to one person about mcgahns response to the trump announcement writing, his reaction was, of course, it happened this way. Don mcgahn worked with trump during the 2016 election before he was appointed to be white House Counsel. And during an interview at this years cpac, mcgahn talked about his influence within the west wing. I advise the president on a range of issues from constitutional law, executive power, whether or not we can go to war, judicial selection, administrative law, essentially Government Law that the president has to encounter on a daytoday basis. And that involves you in just about everything . Unfortunately, yes. Mcgahn has also been on the front lines of this administrations dealings with Robert Mueller, and hes been a key witness in the russia inquiry. The president s announcement today comes after the New York Times reported last week that mcgahn has spent 30 hours talking to muellers team and that the president s team didnt seem to know what mcgahn had shared with investigators. Today the president insisted hes not at all concerned with whatever mcgahn told mueller. Are you concerned about what he said to the mueller team . Not at all. When did you know he was going . I knew he was going. I had to approve it. We do everything by the book, and don is an excellent guy. And that prompted harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz to say this. I cant imagine that he wouldnt be worried. If hes not worried, he should be worried. Whenever somebody on the inside spends 30 hours with somebody who is trying to get you, you got to start worrying, and you should have started worrying even before that happened and thought seriously about what your options were to reduce the amount of worrying that youre going to have after the fact. Now, again, close involvement with all aspects of the russia investigation meant he was often off on a collision course with the president. You may recall in late january of 2017, mcgahn was the First White House official to be warned about National Security adviser Michael Flynns contacts with russia. In march of that year, trump reportedly pressured mcgahn to ask Jeff Sessions not to recuse himself from the russia investigation. There were also clashes with fbi director james comey who was eventually fired in may. And in june trump reportedly tried to get mcgahn to orchestrate the firing of Robert Mueller. Mcgahn has said to have refused, threatening to resign himself. Now, if theres one area where mcgahn and trump agree, its not judicial appointments. The white House Counsel has been instrumental in getting neil gorsuch appointed to the Supreme Court, and mcgahn is now shepherding the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh. So far hes helped win Senate Confirmation of more than two dozen Appeals Court judges. The potential loss of mcgahn as an ally in the white house has sparked concern among republican senators. Today senator Chuck Grassley, chairman of the executive committee, posted about him leaving. He said, quote, i hope its not true. Mcgahn is leaving the counsel. You cant let that happen. There is also talk about a replacement for mcgahn. Emmett flood, this man, is the one name most frequently mentioned. Flood represented former president bill clinton when he was impeached. The Washington Post sent this tweet today saying, flood is widely seen as a likely replacement and was personally recruited by mcgahn to join the white house back in the spring. Flood has built a rapport with potus, to mcgahns relief. But no decision finalized yet. The president s inner circle is diminishing. The headline on another blockbuster piece of reporting by the Washington Post tonight reads, winter is coming. Citing 26 sources, the story describes how aides and advisers to the president fear the white house is ill prepared for a potential democratic takeover of the house of representatives in the midterm elections, now just 69 days away. According to the paper, winter is coming, said one trump ally in close communication with the white house. Assuming democrats win the house, which we all believe is a very strong likelihood, the white house will be under siege. But its like tumbleweeds rolling down the halls over there. No one is prepared for a war. Lets bring in our leadoff panel. Phil rucker, the Pulitzer Prize winning bureau chief for the Washington Post. Tamara keith, White House Correspondent for npr, and richard painter was chief white house ethics adviser for george w. Bush. Thank you for joining me. Lets start with you. Why now . Whats specific about the potential departure of mcgahn thats got so many people worried, or is it just one more thing thats making them worried . Ali, its just one more thing thats making them worry. This fear has been building for a while now as it looks increasingly likely that democrats have a real possibility of taking over the majority of the house at a minimum in novembers midterm elections. And people around the president , his allies, including some of his advisers inside the white house, are very concerned that could lead to a barrage of subpoenas, of investigations, of inquiries into ethical misconduct in the administration, into increase perhaps into the president s businesses, and most dangerously, into possible impeachment proceedings, depending, of course, on what sort of report special counsel Robert Mueller issues regarding obstruction of justice. And so there is concern that trump is not prepared for that, that he hasnt hired the kind of lawyers to his legal team who can really manage an impeachment battle with congress. He certainly has in Rudy Giuliani a fierce and vocal defender and somebody willing to wage this Public Relations battle with mueller, but hes not exactly what a lot of trump allies believe the president would need in an impeachment lawyer. But theres also concern that the white house itself has not built the infrastructure necessary to manage all of these investigations and these subpoenas. The white House Counsels office had 35 lawyers at one time, now its down to 25. Mcgahn is leaving, but so, too, have a number of his deputies in the counsels office. So there are vacancies there to be filled. Then you look at the Communications Operation in the white house. They do everything they can to put out these fires every day and deal with the day to day, but that doesnt leave them a lot of band width to prepare for the real difficulties that could come if democrats win the house and begin these investigations. You know, tamara, just this last week weve heard stories about how the president i can in order the advice of john kelly, of Sarah Huckabee sanders to issue a proper response to the passing of john mccain. Subsequently he did it later. But it really brings up the question of where do the guardrails exist in the white house . There is some talk that ivanka and jared might have been behind the acceleration of don mcgahns demise. Were not sure what john kelly is doing exactly in the white house. Hes not keeping the president out of trouble. So there is definitely some sense that there is no supervision there. And when john kelly came in, he said he was going to be the chief of the staff, and at this point, its not clear, really, who hes supervising. Don mcgahn as the white House Counsel, he was never the president s lawyer. He represents the presidency. And at times, what was best for the presidency isnt what President Trump wanted, which led to sort of a contentious relationship, because out in the outside world, when President Trump was businessman trump, he had lawyers who said yes. And don mcgahn has been someone who at times has had to say no. Let me ask you, richard, when phil talks about the white house lacking infrastructure to deal with this sort of thing, the president has systematically dismantled an infrastructure that might have been there. Its not clear he had one in the start, but the fact is so many key people are leaving. What is the role of the white House Counsel and in what way should the president be looking at the role of the white House Counsel because he has expressed concern that don mcgahn wouldnt get on its been reported that he has expressed concern don mcgahn wouldnt get on board with the idea of pardoning Paul Manafort. So the infrastructure was broken from the beginning. Well, it certainly was. The role of the white House Counsel is to assist the president in complying with the law, making sure the president complies with the law, discussing the various options open to the president that comply with the law. This president doesnt want to comply with the law. Has obstructed justice, the fbi director drafting a statement for his son in the Mueller Investigation about the trump tower meeting that was a lie. The list of problems goes on and on. And im amazed that don mcgahn stayed this long, because if a white House Counsel sits around and watches people break the law and then gets involved in the coverup, well, we know where that leads. John dean can tell you about that, what happened in the nixon years. You end up losing your law license and go to jail. So im amazed he stayed this long. I dont know whether emmett flood is going to really want this job unless this president is going to decide hes going to comply with the law, and thats not whats been going on over the past almost two years now. So what happens next in that description that richard just gave, phil, that the white House Counsel, and this is something don mcgahn said himself, that his job is to acquaint the president with all the various laws that the president has to come across every day. And as tamara said, his job is to advise the presidency, hes not there to protect the president. But if the president thinks don mcgahn maybe wasnt loyal or said more than he should have to the Mueller Investigation in his 30 hours of being interviewed, what does the president do, then . Does he bring someone in who will do his bidding more willingly than don mcgahn did . Thats a great question, ali. I dont know. I think if he were to tap in flood to replace don mcgahn, he would be getting very much the same kind of white House Counsel. Someone who is a lawyers lawyer who will stand by the presidency and defend the presidency and work on behalf of the presidency which at times will come into conflict with President Trumps demands for loyalty. Part of whats going on here, the president views the presidency, the executive branch, as so much about himself. Its about defending him, its about promoting him, its about protecting him, and thats not what our system was built for, and thats not what the white House Counsels office is for. Thats what Rudy Giuliani can do and is doing, but hes a separate outside attorney for the president , and frankly, there is fear in the orbit that the president hasnt even taken that role seriously enough to have sort of a top flight, white collar criminal defense attorney who actually has worked with the Supreme Court and can handle this impeachment proceeding in that chair. Tamara, if one looks at this administration and wants to look at things that are really successes, the appointment of members of the judiciary at the federal level, at the circuit level, has been one of those successes and don mcgahn has been behind a lot of that. Absolutely, which is why you got that tweet from Chuck Grassley and why mitch mcconnell, the Senate Majority leader, put out the most effusive statement in a very long time. He said hes the best white House Counsel hes ever known. Hes ever known. And the reason is theyve been able to push through just a huge number of conservative judges. And in part thats because of rule changes in the senate, in part its because don mcgahn and his team have been vetting people and getting them in the pipeline. There have been a couple of misfires, but largely, they have been able to just get a ton of judges approved by the senate and into lifetime appointments. And if you go back, President Trump when he was running, there was a lot of people on the right, especially evangelicals, who were worried about some of the things that come along with donald trump. And they were reassured by this list that mcgahn and others put together of judges that the president said he would consider his list for the Supreme Court. And the fact is that the president , by handing this to mcgahn and just sort of letting the process go, hes giving those voters exactly what they asked for. Richard, the president we know has not always been given the best advice. We know by john kelly, we know by jared kushner. But we dont have a lot of reports of bad advice that hes gotten from don mcgahn. At this point with the investigation closing in on him, does the president getting rid of don mcgahn expose him to greater legal jeopardy . Probably not, because he doesnt listen to anyones advice unless he wants to hear that advice, and its advice he wants to hear. Hell listen to Rudy Giuliani mouth off and Alan Dershowitz when dershowitz goes on the television to attack Robert Mueller, and hell listen to people who repeat the lines that he wants to hear. But he will not listen to good lawyers. Donald trump, even in his days back in new york, had trouble finding good lawyers. He took roy cohn, who was senator Joe Mccarthys lawyers, he was one of the nastiest lawyers in new york. The bottom line is donald trump doesnt want to listen to good lawyers, good lawyers dont want to work for him. He ends up with people like michael cohen. Its been a disaster. I would never want to be Donald Trumps lawyer. I wouldnt want to end up going to jail. There is a lot of liability that seems to come with working in this white house. Thank you, guys. Coming up, while Robert Muellers team ponders its next move, Paul Manaforts lawyers want to move his next trial. An investigation update ahead. Why this contest is being called a proxy war in the National Political debate. The 11th hour just Getting Started on a wednesday night. To rent a movie . Showtime. Or buy the hottest shows. Even here . Weve got you covered. Now they are all yours. To take on the go. On any screen. Bingo alright and watch whatever you buy. Wherever you are. Head to xfinity. Com stream to start watching. Simple to rent, easy to buy, awesome to go. President trumps former Campaign Manager wants his second trial moved out of d. C. Paul manaforts lawyers say he cant get a fair trial there and theyre blaming the president s tweets. The president has lamented how bad he felt about the socalled witch hunt, praising him for not breaking and declared, there is no collusion. And trump had this to say about manafort and the russia investigation just last week. I must tell you that Paul Manafort is a good man. He was with ronald reagan, he was with a lot of different people over the years, and i feel very sad