Transcripts For MSNBCW The 11th Hour With Brian Williams 201

Day 886 of the Trump Administration. And the president is, again, punishing iran days after suddenly reversing a decision to launch military strikes to retaliate for the downing of an unmanned u. S. Drone. Hes imposing new sanctions now targeted irans leadership. Todays action follows a series of aggressive behaviors by the Iranian Regime in recent weeks including shooting down of u. S. Drones. We will continue to increase pressure on tehran until the regime abandons its dangerous activities and its aspirations including the pursuit of nuclear weapons. I look forward to discussing whatever i have to discuss with anybody that wants to speak. In the meantime, who knows whats going to happen. I can only tell you we cannot ever let iran have a nuclear weapon. Just days ago, we learned of trumps decision to stop an attack on iranian targets just as it was about to begin. The reversal came hours after the president said this. They made a very bad mistake. Okay . Mr. President how will you respond . Youll find out. Are you willing to go to war with iran . Youll find out. Youll find out. Trumps handling of iran is renewing concerns that his negotiating style of pushing toward the brink then pulling back just before carrying out on a threat is putting our nation somehow at risk. The Associated Press writes tonight that trumps, abrupt decision against military strikes may have prevented open military conflict with iran but also showed him anew to be an unpredictable at home and abroad. Now the standoff with iran, his course reverses, confound allies as well as adversaies and his own party in congress. Heres another example. Exactly one week ago, trump sent out this warning and we quote, next week i. C. E. Will begin the process of removing the millions of illegal aliens who have illicitly found their way into the United States. They will be removed as fast as they come in. Then on saturday a day before the deportations were to begin, he wrote, at the request of democrats i delayed the ild Legal Immigration removal process, to see if democrats can republicans can get together and work out a solution to the asylum loopholes at the southern border, if not deportations start. Our nbc news colleague Julia Ainsley reports two dhs Officials Say sundays raids were called off in large part because details of the plans had leaked to us in the media. The Washington Post reports this about trump and we quote, policy turnarounds by President Trump this month have underscored his freewheeling governing style, an approach that some experts warns sends mixed messages and puts u. S. National security at risk. They add, trump is increasingly employing brinksmanship in an effort to achieve key policy goals. Here for our leadoff discussion on a fresh monday night, were fortunate to have these first three former chief of staff at cia and pentagon. Annie karni, White House Reporter for the New York Times and philip rucker, Pulitzer Prize winning White House Bureau chief for the Washington Post. Annie, id like to begin with you. Do you, indeed, fueled by your reporting or simple observations, see this as a theme . Its certainly a theme. He likes to go to the brink. Its brinksmanship. Threaten some severe action, and the last minute pull it back. Now, the question is here, is he achieving policy goals through this style of governing . The answer is sometimes a little bit, sometimes not much. Is he what is the aftereffect of this . Weve seen it here on the iran strike. On the tariffs with mexico that he threatened then at the last minute reversed course and on the i. C. E. Raids. One thing thats in common with all these pieces here is that often even while making the threat, he doesnt make it clear what actions would stop him from taking that action. For instance, when he announced the tariffs on mexico, it was very vague what actions mexico could take to stop him from imposing the tariffs completely. On the night they were announced chief of staff Mick Mulvaney said theyd be looking at mexicos actions on a daytoday basis. What actions need to be put off permanently, not just for the next two weeks and not clear what casualty number would have not deterred trump from making that strike against iran. So his actions also are not explained. Jeremy bash, a dual question to you. Everybody likes having optionalty and wiggle room, but a, what kind of signal does this send to our allies . B, how should we be treating iran right about now . Well, the president i think made three big mistakes. First he minimized the strike against the u. S. Aircraft in International Airspace. It wasnt an accident as the president suggested. It was a third effort by iran to down u. S. Aircraft. The first was successful over yemen. The week before last. And they shot at one of our predators which put over top the stricken tanker the week before last and then they took down for the first time a u. S. Flag carrier in International Airspace over international waters. So first he minimized it. Second, he yanked the operation out from under the troops and i think any time you give a command downrange, you have to have clarity and discipline. You dont want the troops at the Strike Group Commander level or Wing Commander level looking over their shoulder wondering whether or not the president is going to pull back an order. Third, he told an obvious falsehood that he called it off because of civilian casualties. We all know he was briefed about that hours before. That was not the reason. I think he just lost his nerve. What should we do . We have to be prepared for military action. Everyone should not be breathing a sigh of relief. If the iranians now feel end emboldened by the president s lack of action and take another shot at aircraft in International Airspace, its going to be game on. Tighten our screws. Get allies lined up. Posture in the region has to be there are other ways to pressurize them. Ultimately we have to know what the end game is, drive them back to the negotiating table and get back to the iran deal. Phil rucker, Speaker Pelosi said take no action against iran without congress approval. The president was asked about that today by the tv arm of the publication the hill. Well play the clip for you, talk about it on the other side. I like the idea of keeping congress abreast but i wouldnt have to do that. Sure. Nancy pelosi said you must have congressional approval. You disagree with her on that . I disagree. I do like keeping them. They have ideas. Intelligent people. Theyll come up with some thoughts. I actually learned a couple of things the other day when we lad our meeting with congress which i think were helpful to me, i do like keeping them abreast. I dont have to do it illegally. Phil rucker, we need a viewers guide for what we just heard there. What is the truth . What you just heard there is a president whos trying to act all powerful but he is, indeed, part of a coequal branch of government. The executive branch is equal to the legislative branch. Congress controls the power of the purse and that is why congress traditionally in this country, you know, is given advanced warning of these sorts of things and is consulted about these sorts of moves and its interesting the mission, the attack that trump was set to authorize in iran last week. He did not communicate anything about that to Speaker Pelosi or to orthother leaders in congress thats according to their accounts. Well see if he does that in the future, but he does not seem inclined to do that. He doesnt seem to value their input or really respect the power of the offices that they hold. Jeremy, ill just go ahead and ask this because it was the first the initial thought of anyone conspiracyminded when the iran attack was called off, whats the chance this president s choice is at all informed by Vladimir Putin who hell see later this week at the g20 . I dont know how much that played a role in this. Its true that actually putin has gotten his way largely in the middle east. He has supported obviously the assad regime. Iran has long sought to create a land bridge all the way from iran, through iraq, through syria, and dominating lebanon, out to the mediterranean. There is an alliance of sorts between what putins trying to achieve in the region and what iran is trying to achieve. I dont know how much it motivated the president in this case. Think at a larger level, putin looks at trump and said this guy backed down, he somehow lost his nerve. Theres no way hes ever going to push me around. Hes going to be a pretty easy foe if we ever get into it. And i just think that that augers poorly for the United States and our interests around the world. Phil rucker, if i have the math right the president arooifr arrives at the g20 and the first session is with the second night debates night. Is there a chance were looking at him trying to create a counterheadline of some sort . He has, after all, been called the cable news president. Certainly possible, brian. I mean, President Trump does not go to these Global Summits without creating some sort of drama or headline. Weve seen him, you know, when he was at nato last year threaten to pull out of nato. It was a huge moment there at the nato headquarters for a couple hours of uncertainty and there could be similar drama as he heads to japan. Hes going to be meeting with various foreign leaders to try to shore up alliances with regard to iran. But hes also going to be thinking about the Nuclear Threat from north korea. Hes got meetings with putin but also with chinese president xi, with the king of saudi arabia, and with a number of other leaders. Annie karni, in no particular order, trouble with iran, the g20 getting under way, and the president faces a Rape Allegation. Actively and currently. In anyones view, is this just a monday in the Trump Administration . The threat from iran is a different sort of thing than anything else hes confronted in that this was an action that they took that pushed him into making to a serious judgment call and a test that he hasnt really faced yet. These other issues have been ones that he is the preemptor, not vice versa. So thats Something Different and something escalated here. The Rape Allegation is the most serious allegation of Sexual Assault among the more than a dozen women who have come forward to make accusations against him in the past. We saw him dismiss this one as hes dismissed all the other ones using the same language and in that interview with the hill he also said shes not my type which is how hes dismissed these allegations in h the past. But as much as it feels like a sort of a climactic point in this administration, it often feels like that every week so time will tell. Im guessing tomorrow will be tuesday. To our lead guests tonight, to jeremy bash, annie karni, phil rucker, cant thank you enough. Very much appreciate you coming on to start a new week with us. And coming up, one highranking democrat warns the clock is ticking when it comes to trying to subpoena this man to appear before congress. And later, pressure on this Administration Increases by the day as dire Living Conditions continue by the day for Migrant Children detained along the border. As the 11 the hour is just Getting Started on this monday night. [ slap ] your nails xfinity home. Cameras. Xfinity home. Disarm the system. Doors open. Morning. Welcome to the neighborhood. Do you like my work . Secure your home with x1 voice control. And rest easy knowing you have professional monitoring backing you up. Awarded top pick by cnet. Demo at an xfinity store, call or go online today. Xfinity home. Simple. Easy. Awesome. So its now been over two months since the redacted version of the Mueller Report was released to the public. Democrats are still pushing for Robert Swan Mueller iii himself to testify. On sunday, Intelligence Committee chairman adam schiff said congress is running out of time. We have been in private discussions with the special counsels office. Its not clear that he will refuse to come involuntarily. Were negotiating what the conditions of that appearance might be. Yes, we are running out of time. Its my hope well reach a final conclusion, either hes going to come in voluntarily or were going to have to subpoena him. I hope well reach that decision this week because we want to have him come in during july. And i think thats going to be the case, jake, whether its voluntarily or involuntary by subpoena. And then theres this front, the number of House Democrats supporting an impeachment inquiry is growing, albeit slowly by the day. Today it was connecticut democratic congressman jim himes who serves on the Intelligence Committee. He became the latest member of congress to voice his support. The time has come, mr. Speaker, for the house of representatives to begin an impeachment inquiry into President Trump. From the moment of his inauguration, this president has shown contempt for the truth, has attacked our institutions, and has ignored the constitution he swore to defend. Heres the math. 76 democrats, there they all are, now say they support an impeachment inquiry or proceedings and one republican, justin amash of michigan. But to be clear, the democrats backing impeachment represent 32 of all the democrats in the house, still less than a mathematical third of the democrats, and remember, nancy pelosi has said all along there would have to be overwhelming public support for impeachment. Back with us tonight is neal katyal, former acting solicitor general before the Obama Administration. Argued 39 cases before the u. S. Supreme court. Happens to be a veteran of the Justice Department where he drafted the special counsel regulations under which mueller was appointed. Counselor, thank you for coming back on with us. I have a dual question for you. How critical, really, is muellers testimony under the be careful what you wish for caveat . And number two, what could the democrats be doing right now that you from the outside look at them and wish they were doing . So i think muellers testimony is important. It might not have been after he wrote his report, the problem was this intervening factor of attorney general barr going out and spinning the report before anyone had a chance to look at it. You know, Supreme Court litigation we really think about framing the debate as kind of giving you the chief advantage, the first person to speak. Normally that first speaker doesnt really distort the facts and cover stuff up. Thats what happened with barr. So i think whats going on now and why you see, brian, these increasing calls for impeachment among democrats is because, frankly, theyve now read the report and i think the american public, more and more people, are now reading the report and understanding that what barr called the report was not the report. The report makes very clear, now over a thousand federal prosecutors, former federal prosecutors have found, that just on its own terms, just read the report, and it amounts to obstruction of justice, a very serious felony, by the president of the United States. A sitting president doing those things. And so thats why i think were seeing these increasing calls and, you know, what can congress do . I think they could those who havent read the report should. I think thats number one. Number two, youre absolutely right to say right now, its only 32 of something of democrats in the house, but there arent people opposed to impeachment yet. I think thats because they havent gone and looked at all the facts and the like. I think the final variable here is actually the administration. You know, it might be one thing, maybe impeachment could have been avoided if the administration actually did what prior administrations did and make witnesses available, but this administration has asserted executive privilege over all sorts of witnesses including Kellyanne Conway and don mcgahn, the president S White House counsel. And i think the one thing id like to see right now, the democrats do, is call mcgahn up to the congress. Call it impeachment. I dont care what you call it. You have to ask him a simple question. Mr. Mcgahn, you told Robert Mueller that you that President Trump ordered you to fire mueller and you didnt carry that out. Why not . They dont want that on live tv because they know the answer to that which is mcgahn believed that was an illegal order. And to see that on television for the folks around the world to see it just as we all saw that oral argument last week about children and the horrible conditions theyre in, you know, to see it on video i think will change the debate immensely and think its got to happen. So you concede that if the Nadler Committee truly finds their voice and their stride, they could have hearings that are impeachablelike, impeachmentesque in everything but title. Absolutely. I think thats a core function of what the congress of the Trump Administration<\/a>. And the president is, again, punishing iran days after suddenly reversing a decision to launch military strikes to retaliate for the downing of an unmanned u. S. Drone. Hes imposing new sanctions now targeted irans leadership. Todays action follows a series of aggressive behaviors by the Iranian Regime<\/a> in recent weeks including shooting down of u. S. Drones. We will continue to increase pressure on tehran until the regime abandons its dangerous activities and its aspirations including the pursuit of nuclear weapons. I look forward to discussing whatever i have to discuss with anybody that wants to speak. In the meantime, who knows whats going to happen. I can only tell you we cannot ever let iran have a nuclear weapon. Just days ago, we learned of trumps decision to stop an attack on iranian targets just as it was about to begin. The reversal came hours after the president said this. They made a very bad mistake. Okay . Mr. President how will you respond . Youll find out. Are you willing to go to war with iran . Youll find out. Youll find out. Trumps handling of iran is renewing concerns that his negotiating style of pushing toward the brink then pulling back just before carrying out on a threat is putting our nation somehow at risk. The Associated Press<\/a> writes tonight that trumps, abrupt decision against military strikes may have prevented open military conflict with iran but also showed him anew to be an unpredictable at home and abroad. Now the standoff with iran, his course reverses, confound allies as well as adversaies and his own party in congress. Heres another example. Exactly one week ago, trump sent out this warning and we quote, next week i. C. E. Will begin the process of removing the millions of illegal aliens who have illicitly found their way into the United States<\/a>. They will be removed as fast as they come in. Then on saturday a day before the deportations were to begin, he wrote, at the request of democrats i delayed the ild Legal Immigration<\/a> removal process, to see if democrats can republicans can get together and work out a solution to the asylum loopholes at the southern border, if not deportations start. Our nbc news colleague Julia Ainsley<\/a> reports two dhs Officials Say<\/a> sundays raids were called off in large part because details of the plans had leaked to us in the media. The Washington Post<\/a> reports this about trump and we quote, policy turnarounds by President Trump<\/a> this month have underscored his freewheeling governing style, an approach that some experts warns sends mixed messages and puts u. S. National security at risk. They add, trump is increasingly employing brinksmanship in an effort to achieve key policy goals. Here for our leadoff discussion on a fresh monday night, were fortunate to have these first three former chief of staff at cia and pentagon. Annie karni, White House Reporter<\/a> for the New York Times<\/a> and philip rucker, Pulitzer Prize<\/a> winning White House Bureau<\/a> chief for the Washington Post<\/a>. Annie, id like to begin with you. Do you, indeed, fueled by your reporting or simple observations, see this as a theme . Its certainly a theme. He likes to go to the brink. Its brinksmanship. Threaten some severe action, and the last minute pull it back. Now, the question is here, is he achieving policy goals through this style of governing . The answer is sometimes a little bit, sometimes not much. Is he what is the aftereffect of this . Weve seen it here on the iran strike. On the tariffs with mexico that he threatened then at the last minute reversed course and on the i. C. E. Raids. One thing thats in common with all these pieces here is that often even while making the threat, he doesnt make it clear what actions would stop him from taking that action. For instance, when he announced the tariffs on mexico, it was very vague what actions mexico could take to stop him from imposing the tariffs completely. On the night they were announced chief of staff Mick Mulvaney<\/a> said theyd be looking at mexicos actions on a daytoday basis. What actions need to be put off permanently, not just for the next two weeks and not clear what casualty number would have not deterred trump from making that strike against iran. So his actions also are not explained. Jeremy bash, a dual question to you. Everybody likes having optionalty and wiggle room, but a, what kind of signal does this send to our allies . B, how should we be treating iran right about now . Well, the president i think made three big mistakes. First he minimized the strike against the u. S. Aircraft in International Airspace<\/a>. It wasnt an accident as the president suggested. It was a third effort by iran to down u. S. Aircraft. The first was successful over yemen. The week before last. And they shot at one of our predators which put over top the stricken tanker the week before last and then they took down for the first time a u. S. Flag carrier in International Airspace<\/a> over international waters. So first he minimized it. Second, he yanked the operation out from under the troops and i think any time you give a command downrange, you have to have clarity and discipline. You dont want the troops at the Strike Group Commander<\/a> level or Wing Commander<\/a> level looking over their shoulder wondering whether or not the president is going to pull back an order. Third, he told an obvious falsehood that he called it off because of civilian casualties. We all know he was briefed about that hours before. That was not the reason. I think he just lost his nerve. What should we do . We have to be prepared for military action. Everyone should not be breathing a sigh of relief. If the iranians now feel end emboldened by the president s lack of action and take another shot at aircraft in International Airspace<\/a>, its going to be game on. Tighten our screws. Get allies lined up. Posture in the region has to be there are other ways to pressurize them. Ultimately we have to know what the end game is, drive them back to the negotiating table and get back to the iran deal. Phil rucker, Speaker Pelosi<\/a> said take no action against iran without congress approval. The president was asked about that today by the tv arm of the publication the hill. Well play the clip for you, talk about it on the other side. I like the idea of keeping congress abreast but i wouldnt have to do that. Sure. Nancy pelosi said you must have congressional approval. You disagree with her on that . I disagree. I do like keeping them. They have ideas. Intelligent people. Theyll come up with some thoughts. I actually learned a couple of things the other day when we lad our meeting with congress which i think were helpful to me, i do like keeping them abreast. I dont have to do it illegally. Phil rucker, we need a viewers guide for what we just heard there. What is the truth . What you just heard there is a president whos trying to act all powerful but he is, indeed, part of a coequal branch of government. The executive branch is equal to the legislative branch. Congress controls the power of the purse and that is why congress traditionally in this country, you know, is given advanced warning of these sorts of things and is consulted about these sorts of moves and its interesting the mission, the attack that trump was set to authorize in iran last week. He did not communicate anything about that to Speaker Pelosi<\/a> or to orthother leaders in congress thats according to their accounts. Well see if he does that in the future, but he does not seem inclined to do that. He doesnt seem to value their input or really respect the power of the offices that they hold. Jeremy, ill just go ahead and ask this because it was the first the initial thought of anyone conspiracyminded when the iran attack was called off, whats the chance this president s choice is at all informed by Vladimir Putin<\/a> who hell see later this week at the g20 . I dont know how much that played a role in this. Its true that actually putin has gotten his way largely in the middle east. He has supported obviously the assad regime. Iran has long sought to create a land bridge all the way from iran, through iraq, through syria, and dominating lebanon, out to the mediterranean. There is an alliance of sorts between what putins trying to achieve in the region and what iran is trying to achieve. I dont know how much it motivated the president in this case. Think at a larger level, putin looks at trump and said this guy backed down, he somehow lost his nerve. Theres no way hes ever going to push me around. Hes going to be a pretty easy foe if we ever get into it. And i just think that that augers poorly for the United States<\/a> and our interests around the world. Phil rucker, if i have the math right the president arooifr arrives at the g20 and the first session is with the second night debates night. Is there a chance were looking at him trying to create a counterheadline of some sort . He has, after all, been called the cable news president. Certainly possible, brian. I mean, President Trump<\/a> does not go to these Global Summits<\/a> without creating some sort of drama or headline. Weve seen him, you know, when he was at nato last year threaten to pull out of nato. It was a huge moment there at the nato headquarters for a couple hours of uncertainty and there could be similar drama as he heads to japan. Hes going to be meeting with various foreign leaders to try to shore up alliances with regard to iran. But hes also going to be thinking about the Nuclear Threat<\/a> from north korea. Hes got meetings with putin but also with chinese president xi, with the king of saudi arabia, and with a number of other leaders. Annie karni, in no particular order, trouble with iran, the g20 getting under way, and the president faces a Rape Allegation<\/a>. Actively and currently. In anyones view, is this just a monday in the Trump Administration<\/a> . The threat from iran is a different sort of thing than anything else hes confronted in that this was an action that they took that pushed him into making to a serious judgment call and a test that he hasnt really faced yet. These other issues have been ones that he is the preemptor, not vice versa. So thats Something Different<\/a> and something escalated here. The Rape Allegation<\/a> is the most serious allegation of Sexual Assault<\/a> among the more than a dozen women who have come forward to make accusations against him in the past. We saw him dismiss this one as hes dismissed all the other ones using the same language and in that interview with the hill he also said shes not my type which is how hes dismissed these allegations in h the past. But as much as it feels like a sort of a climactic point in this administration, it often feels like that every week so time will tell. Im guessing tomorrow will be tuesday. To our lead guests tonight, to jeremy bash, annie karni, phil rucker, cant thank you enough. Very much appreciate you coming on to start a new week with us. And coming up, one highranking democrat warns the clock is ticking when it comes to trying to subpoena this man to appear before congress. And later, pressure on this Administration Increases<\/a> by the day as dire Living Conditions<\/a> continue by the day for Migrant Children<\/a> detained along the border. As the 11 the hour is just Getting Started<\/a> on this monday night. [ slap ] your nails xfinity home. Cameras. Xfinity home. Disarm the system. Doors open. Morning. Welcome to the neighborhood. Do you like my work . Secure your home with x1 voice control. And rest easy knowing you have professional monitoring backing you up. Awarded top pick by cnet. Demo at an xfinity store, call or go online today. Xfinity home. Simple. Easy. Awesome. So its now been over two months since the redacted version of the Mueller Report<\/a> was released to the public. Democrats are still pushing for Robert Swan Mueller<\/a> iii himself to testify. On sunday, Intelligence Committee<\/a> chairman adam schiff said congress is running out of time. We have been in private discussions with the special counsels office. Its not clear that he will refuse to come involuntarily. Were negotiating what the conditions of that appearance might be. Yes, we are running out of time. Its my hope well reach a final conclusion, either hes going to come in voluntarily or were going to have to subpoena him. I hope well reach that decision this week because we want to have him come in during july. And i think thats going to be the case, jake, whether its voluntarily or involuntary by subpoena. And then theres this front, the number of House Democrats<\/a> supporting an impeachment inquiry is growing, albeit slowly by the day. Today it was connecticut democratic congressman jim himes who serves on the Intelligence Committee<\/a>. He became the latest member of congress to voice his support. The time has come, mr. Speaker, for the house of representatives to begin an impeachment inquiry into President Trump<\/a>. From the moment of his inauguration, this president has shown contempt for the truth, has attacked our institutions, and has ignored the constitution he swore to defend. Heres the math. 76 democrats, there they all are, now say they support an impeachment inquiry or proceedings and one republican, justin amash of michigan. But to be clear, the democrats backing impeachment represent 32 of all the democrats in the house, still less than a mathematical third of the democrats, and remember, nancy pelosi has said all along there would have to be overwhelming public support for impeachment. Back with us tonight is neal katyal, former acting solicitor general before the Obama Administration<\/a>. Argued 39 cases before the u. S. Supreme court. Happens to be a veteran of the Justice Department<\/a> where he drafted the special counsel regulations under which mueller was appointed. Counselor, thank you for coming back on with us. I have a dual question for you. How critical, really, is muellers testimony under the be careful what you wish for caveat . And number two, what could the democrats be doing right now that you from the outside look at them and wish they were doing . So i think muellers testimony is important. It might not have been after he wrote his report, the problem was this intervening factor of attorney general barr going out and spinning the report before anyone had a chance to look at it. You know, Supreme Court<\/a> litigation we really think about framing the debate as kind of giving you the chief advantage, the first person to speak. Normally that first speaker doesnt really distort the facts and cover stuff up. Thats what happened with barr. So i think whats going on now and why you see, brian, these increasing calls for impeachment among democrats is because, frankly, theyve now read the report and i think the american public, more and more people, are now reading the report and understanding that what barr called the report was not the report. The report makes very clear, now over a thousand federal prosecutors, former federal prosecutors have found, that just on its own terms, just read the report, and it amounts to obstruction of justice, a very serious felony, by the president of the United States<\/a>. A sitting president doing those things. And so thats why i think were seeing these increasing calls and, you know, what can congress do . I think they could those who havent read the report should. I think thats number one. Number two, youre absolutely right to say right now, its only 32 of something of democrats in the house, but there arent people opposed to impeachment yet. I think thats because they havent gone and looked at all the facts and the like. I think the final variable here is actually the administration. You know, it might be one thing, maybe impeachment could have been avoided if the administration actually did what prior administrations did and make witnesses available, but this administration has asserted executive privilege over all sorts of witnesses including Kellyanne Conway<\/a> and don mcgahn, the president S White House<\/a> counsel. And i think the one thing id like to see right now, the democrats do, is call mcgahn up to the congress. Call it impeachment. I dont care what you call it. You have to ask him a simple question. Mr. Mcgahn, you told Robert Mueller<\/a> that you that President Trump<\/a> ordered you to fire mueller and you didnt carry that out. Why not . They dont want that on live tv because they know the answer to that which is mcgahn believed that was an illegal order. And to see that on television for the folks around the world to see it just as we all saw that oral argument last week about children and the horrible conditions theyre in, you know, to see it on video i think will change the debate immensely and think its got to happen. So you concede that if the Nadler Committee<\/a> truly finds their voice and their stride, they could have hearings that are impeachablelike, impeachmentesque in everything but title. Absolutely. I think thats a core function of what the congress of the United States<\/a> is about and i think the democrats right now are wasting some time and for, you know, i understand they wanted to see would the president assert executive privilege . Now we know. He has a view of executive privilege that would make nixon blush. And so, you know, there is only one remedy that stage which is to call for an impeachment or impeachmentlike inquiry to pierce these bogus notions of executive privilege. We could fight it out in the courts and undoubtedly the democrats would win but that would take a long time. President has gotten recently expansive in the answers to some questions. Chuck todd got him to admit that his biggest regret was the appointment of jeff sessions. Heres what he said to hill tv today, tonight, actually, about Christopher Wray<\/a> and this is not a ringing endorsement of the fbi director he appointed. President trump on monday declined to say he has confidence in Christopher Wray<\/a> and stressed he disagrees with the fbi director who has said he does not believe there was spying on the president s 2016 campaign. Well, well see how it turns out, trump said in exclusive interview with the hill when asked about his level of confidence in wray. I mean, i disagree with him on that. I think a lot of people are disa greeing, you may disagree with him on thatthat. Counselor, this is not the first time the president cast doubt on one of his hires or doubt on the director of our premier Law Enforcement<\/a> agency. Yeah, just starting with jeff sessions, the idea the president said thats the one mistake he made, appoint a guy who had one shred, one day when he issued something of independent judgment by stepping aside in the whole russia inquiry, that thats the guy you regret as opposed to, say, michael flynn, a convicted felon whos your National Security<\/a> adviser or ryan zinke and scott pruitt who are guys who i think were so corrupt theyd make my own hometown, chicago, oldstyle politicians blush or my parents politicis in their indian villages blush. This is really absurd to think thats the mistake and i think it goes to the larger pattern, brian, that youre indicating. When itle comes to judges, fbi director, the attorney general or the rule of law, itself, this is a president who thinks hes above that. And that everything is tied back to that simple thing. Whether its executive privilege, whether its impeachment, whether its obstruction of justice, or how he talks about his own cabinet and the federal judiciary. This is someone who has an assault on the rule of law. And it is up to our congress to stand up for us and to say, this is not who we are as americans. This is not a party thing. This is simply a foundational principle that our country is built on. Our thanks to a veteran rule of law guy, neal katyal, for coming back on the broadcast. Thank you. We appreciate it. Another break for us. Coming up, the speaker of the house told the president he was scaring children in this country. It seems to have worked for now. If you have medicare, listen up. Medicare alone only covers 80 of your cost, leaving you to pay the rest. Changes to medicare are no laughing matter. 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They work to help you, and they do it all for free. Hi, im dr. Thomas stackhouse. Its a new medicare year and that means more changes and more confusion. Many people may worry about the high cost of medical care and Prescription Drug<\/a>s. The key to maintaining your health and saving money on your healthcare cost is finding the right plan for you. Dont go it alone. Make sure to explore all of your options to find the right plan for your needs. Having helped enroll people in millions of policies with an a plus Customer Satisfaction<\/a> rating, you can trust healthmarkets. You can enroll today. Call healthmarkets now for free help. Its easy to find the medicare plan that saves you money, so you can enjoy more of the things you love. Call now to take advantage of this free service. Now is the time to update your coverage or enroll for the first time. Call healthmarkets now. Call the number on your screen call this number now. You can go first. Audible reintroduced this whole world to me. So many Great Stories<\/a> from amazing people. It makes me want to be better. To be able to connect with the peoples stories that im listening to. Thats inspiration. Its on during my commute, its on all the time. Doing the dishes. Working out. While im in the car. At bed time. An audible listener is someone that wants to broaden their mind. People who are tired of listening to the radio, or music. To hear her speak those words. It was incredible. It was unbelievable. With Audible Originals<\/a>, theres something for almost every taste in there. Everything you ever wanted to hear. I signed up for getting a credit every month, and i started exploring books that i normally wouldnt read. Our ability to empathize through these stories, with these stories, can be transformational. Its my own thing that i can do for me. See what listening to audible can do for you. Just text listen5 to 500500. Hundreds of Migrant Children<\/a> have been moved out of a texas Border Patrol<\/a> station after they were found to be living in deplorable conditions. An attorney who visited the facility described what she saw earlier tonight here on this network. We saw children who were being forced to live in horrendous conditions that no child should ever have to live in. Many children reported that they regularly were forced to sleep on the cement including infants and toddlers. We saw the children who were dirty and some of them smelled. We saw their clothes were stained. There was no soap. They were infrequently allowed to brush their teeth. They were given the same breakfast, same lunch, same dinner day after day and were talking about instant foods. Were talking about koolaid. Were talking about frozen burritos. It just is not a way to care for children. These reports came just days after a Trump Administration<\/a> lawyer attempted to defend those very same unsanitary conditions. Its within everybodys common understanding that, you know, if you dont have a toothbrush, if you dont have soap, if you dont have a blanket, its not safe and sanitary. Wouldnt everybody agree to that . Do you agree to that . Well, i think its i think those are theres fair reason to find that those things may be part of safe not may be. Are a part. Those are federal judges, ninth Circuit Court<\/a> of appeals. With us to talk about it tonight, anita kumar, white house correspondent, associate editor for politico. Elliot williams, former federal prosecutor who was Deputy Assistant<\/a> attorney general and counsel to the u. S. Senate judiciary committee. As well as former assistant director for u. S. Immigration and customs enforcement. I. C. E. Good evening. Welcome to you both. Elliot, id like to start with you because of attempts out in the media to normalize this. Were hearing the refrain from the current crowd. This is the same thing that obama did obama was even more aggressive on this front. Elliot, once and for all, since you were there, what of this is a continuation of obama policy . Let me make something abundantly clear. The Obama Administration<\/a> never had a policy of deliberately separating parents from their children as a means of deterring people from coming to the United States<\/a>, period. And thats the thing. Like, the i think whats getting lost in this is the mere fact that if children were ever separated from their parents, it was incidental and immediately they were reunited with at least the intent was to reunite them with their parents or their families. There was never a goal and the administration now, the Trump Administration<\/a>, has stated we intended to deter people from coming to the United States<\/a> with the fear that your toddlers will be taken away from you. That is certainly sinister to say the least. And i think its a means of distancing themselves from the true intent of the approach that theyre taking here. But, again, what this all exposes is what we need to be having is a bigger, broader, comprehensive conversation about how we ensure orderly access to the United States<\/a> via the immigration system, how we ensure safe and orderly removal from the United States<\/a>, you know, as to people who ought not to be here, but also how we fix the conditions, the who risk conditions, frankly, throughout parts of the hemisphere that have led to the mess down at the border. Were not having that critical conversation that needs to be had with congress, needs to be had with the public and with the white house, the administration. I think were getting into the weeds. What we need be having is how do we humanely treat our immigration system . And i think thats getting lost in this whole discussion. Anita, i want to share with our audience what some of this normalization sounds like. Heres the president with chuck todd. Well discuss it on the other side. I ended separation. I inherited separation from president obama. President obama built, they call them jail cells. They were built. Lets talk about whats happening now. Your administration, youre not doing the recreation. Youre not even schooling these kids anymore. Youve gotten rid of all that stuff. Were doing a fantastic job under the circumstances. The democrats arent even approving giving us money. Where is the money . Anita, is any of that going to get traction that this is because of democrats . Well, thats been the president s talking points, right . He has been blaming democrats and trying to pressure them saying that its their fault, they have to fix it. He did give them two weeks, you know, the congress two weeks to try to come up with some laws. I dont think youll find a democrat or republican in washington who thinks that congress can solve this problem or even pass a bill on the border, related to the border, in the next two weeks. So, you know, it is something that hes going to be talking about on the campaign trail. Its something hes been talking about and were going to hear him blame the democrats over and over for this issue. I mean, nobody wants to be blamed for things that are happening to small children. You saw the president last year say when there was the child separation issue and there was an uproar from both sides, both democrats and republicans, you saw him turn the page on that. He said im not going to do that anymore. I dont think he wants to be blamed for whats going on right now. Elliot, if i appointed you special master for this and lord knows i wish i could, what one specific cruelty would you try to remedy and how . You know, brian, look, im the parent of two very small children and i think if were getting into the specifics or cruelty, you know, the specifics of whether toothbrushes or soap are, you know, constitute safe and humane conditions, again, i think were getting lost in the bigger and broader conversation which is were not having a humanitarian discussion about the western hemisphere. We are not having a bigger, broader conversation about how the immigration system ought to be structured. Whether its effectively or efficiently structured now, i mean, im on the record, i wrote an article about this a couple months ago about, frankly, the fact that i think that immigration shouldnt even be in the department of Homeland Security<\/a> in the first place because i think it, you know, creates a false sense that immigration is about safety and security exclusively and not about people wanting to come to the United States<\/a> to work. Which is a fundamentally aspect of the immigration system. So, you know, im reluctant to get into any specific because theyre all, you know, theres, like, you used the word, deplorable, earlier, brian, and theyre deplorable conditions and i think to rank one over the other is sort of a dangerous area. The whole thing is a mess and we just need to get more systemic about it. And anita, to get politics about it, is this Stephen Miller<\/a> and or others saying, boss, be strong, this is a winnable issue for us in 2020 . Well, weve been hearing that for weeks and youve seen the results for weeks that the president with Stephen Miller<\/a> whispering in his ear and others saying that he has not been tough enough, they have not had stronger policies to deal with the immigration issue. His number one issue that he campaigned on in 2016. Thats why youve seen the secretary of Homeland Security<\/a> left or was fired. Youve seen other people come and go that the president feels like he really needs to make some headway on this. Its something hes been talking about for twoplus years and hasnt gotten where he wants to be. But, yes, youre right. You saw in his First Campaign<\/a> rally last week that this is still going to be an issue hes going to be talking about and he wants to show that he has made some, you know, accomplishments on this issue. He wants to prove that his record, he wants to show people that he did what he said he was going to do. So i think were going if be hearing more about this and were going to keep seeing some changes. Lets keep that word, deplorable, though, front and center. To anita kumar, to elliot williams, thank you, both, for coming on again tonight. And coming up for us, rising star, mayor pete, facing tough criticism during his day job as mayor of south bend, indiana. How a local tragedy could impact his national standing, when we come back. Get the racists off the streets. Its disrespectful that i wake up every day scared. Its disrespectful that i have three boys that i have to teach today what to do. Get them off the streets. I will say that if anyone who is on patrol is shown to be a racist or to do something racist in a way that is substantiated, that is their last day on the street. 2020 candidate Pete Buttigieg<\/a> was forced to confront some difficult questions on Race Relations<\/a> in his home city, as you saw there. He left the campaign trail briefly following the shooting of a black man by a white Police Officer<\/a> in south bend, indiana. The New York Times<\/a> characterizes the mayors response this way. Mr. Buttigiegs public demeanor dealing with a homegrown crisis over the last week has drawn criticism that he has failed to convey empathy toward distraught citizens and that, therefore, he is less committed to solving a problem than to salvaging his political viability. We are happy to have with us tonight and welcome to the broadcast joshua jamerson, National Political<\/a> reporter for the wall street journal. And, josh, lets talk about this because in his answer to that question, no matter how much empathy he was, perhaps, trying to convey, he did it in the demeanor and cadence of his answer to every other question. He is all about cool under fire and being in control. This situation is not under control. His city is hurting. And thats what a lot of democratic primary voters are going to have to assess about mr. Buttigieg Going Forward<\/a>. What i think is really interesting about how mayor pete has handled this is, and the big question really is going to be Going Forward<\/a> how able is he to compartmentalize whats going on in south bend and his responsibilities on the campaign trail . Like you mentioned earlier, he was off the campaign trail friday night and i was with him saturday in columbia, South Carolina<\/a>, where he seemed to be his normal campaign self. He was walking down the streets in south bend with half a marching band behind him. Walked in that South Carolina<\/a> Democratic Party<\/a> convention to a boisterous crowd. Gave his normal stump speech and mentioned what was going on in south bend at the top in a very succinct manner. I think thats both the immediate and longterm question, how is he going to be able to juggle his day job with his campaign responsibilities . And on your last point there, if youre going to run bragging on your day job and your executive experience, this sure is a lesson in the responsibilities of that. On top of everything else, i noticed this weekend video started popping up of a tornado in south bend, indiana. Sooner or later, youre going to really start feeling that your job compels you to be there even though he is due to be onstage in glamorous miami, florida, with nine of his closest friends thursday night on this network. Uhhuh. And whats going to be interesting about that, brian, is what sense we get from his rivals that they feel that he is vulnerable in the primary race on this front. Like i said, so far, you know, weve kind of seen whats happened in south bend and whats happening on the campaign trail as it relates to mr. Buttigieg remains somewhat separate. We talked to some democratic primary voters in South Carolina<\/a> who were eager to learn more about whats happening in south bend, but to the extent that that is penetrating on the campaign trail, i think thats something were going to have to watch over the next couple weeks. When they say in politics when youre explaining, youre losing, that has not numerically that much applied to joe biden yet but hes still digging out. Im going to play for you a clip of joe biden with al sharpton. Well talk about it on the other side. When you call a racist like you normalize, youre not thats not the biden i got to know. Dont you understand that . I do fully understand. Thats not what i said, though. They didnt print the whole deal. You know what i mean . The context of this was totally different. And by the way, the fact of the matter is, i ran against all those folks. Let me tell you something, you got to deal with whats in front of you. And what was in front of you are a bunch of racists that we had to defeat them. Josh, that gets him back to what most people think would have been the best way to explain this, i was 1 of 100 senators, you cant change who the voters of mississippi and alabama duly elect, you can only try to pass legislation. Long story short, do you think biden suffers more damage the night hes not on the stage or the night hes on the stage . I think thats probably one of the biggest questions a lot of political junkies have is is which night are the knives going to be out more, if at all . I think what was interesting about that clip you just played for those of us who are there watching him speak, it was interesting to watch reverend al sharpton in a comfortable setting, you know, those two go back quite a bit. Yeah. Reverend al was giving him opportunity after opportunity to apologize and, for his remarks and the Vice President<\/a> kept further explaining himself but stopping short of that apology that reverend al was trying to, it seemed like, talk him toward and thats one of joe bidens rivals in the race, cory booker has called for, but one thing i would note is that, you know, cory booker, watching the two of them cross paths both friday night at jim clyburns fish fry and saturday at the South Carolina<\/a> party convention, was watching them interact just like kind of cross paths and it seemed like everything was okay. And then also talking to cory booker after with reporters, you know, we asked him if the two had buried the hatchet in their interactions over the weekend and cory booker said that there was no hatchet, that he respected and had a great deal of gratitude for the Vice President<\/a>. So i think thats the big question Going Forward<\/a> is just whats it going to be like both when bidens on the stage and when hes not . Joshua jamerson, the man behind the byline in the wall street journal. Pleasure having you. Thank you very much for coming on with us tonight. Thank you. And coming up for us, Steve Kornacki<\/a> at the big board. Heres a hint. Hes getting closer to miami. Hell show us more about the peach state tonight. danny let me get this straight. After a long day of hard work. You have to do more work . vo automatically sort your expenses and save over 40 hours a month. danny every day youre nearly fried to a crisp, professionally vo you earned it, were here to make sure you get it. Quickbooks. Backing you. Termites, were on the move. 24 7. Roger. Hey rick, all good . Oh yeah, were good. Were good. Termites never stop trying to get in, we never stop working to keep them out. Terminix. Defenders of home. Audible members know listening has the power to change us make us better parents, better leaders, better people. And theres no better place to listen than audible. With audible you get a credit good for any audiobook and exclusive fitness and wellness programs. And now, youll also get two Audible Originals<\/a> titles exclusively produced for audible. Automatically roll your credits over to the next month if you dont use them, and if you dont like a book just swap it for free. Enjoy 100 ad free listening in the car, on your phone or any connected device. And when you switch a device pick up right where you left off. With our commitment free guarantee, theres never been a better time to start listening to audible. The most inspiring minds, the most compelling stories, the best place to listen. To start your free 30day trial, text listen5 to 500500 today. We are two days away from the debate. Steve kornacki is traveling south along the bustling i95 corridor with everything he needs to know about the states he drives through. This will be a surprise for all of us. Steve is almost there. We expect him in miami around this time tomorrow night. Tonight he has left South Carolina<\/a> for the peach state. With us tonight, our own miamis Steve Kornacki<\/a>. Thank you. We are at the 18th green at augusta. Tiger woods has just bogeyed this hole. He is now in the clubhouse. And now msnbcs own winner of the 2002 greater open is putting for the green jacket. He sunk the putt. He can add another championship to his resume. How did you make that shot under such immense pressure . I would like to go to the senate and testify to build my stress response and really try to imagine im not going to miss it. It was an amazing shot. Congratulations to you. Wear that jacket with pride. Clint watts, he has won the green jacket. That is, of course, a great georgia tradition there. I can put this fake microphone down. We are on the green here. Instead of green, lets talk red and blue. Georgia, of course, traditionally known as a red state. Republicans win this thing inputal elections, but democrats think they can make it a blue state in 2020. Democrats always talking about winning back the rust belt. What if instead a state like georgia came into play for them. In 2016 trump won this state by five points down from what republicans normally do. Democrats got even closer in the gubernatorial race. They didnt win it, but they got close, close enough that they are talking about being able to flip this in 2020. One of the reasons they talk about georgia being more competitive, it is in the Atlanta Metro<\/a> area. It is in the suburbs, the sixth congressional district. We have talked a lot about this one. Here is why. The sixth district. Watch this trajectory back in 2012 romney won this by 24 points. Donald trump comes along and wins the district but only by a point in 2016. Look at that massive shift tlmpt was the special election in 2017 early in the Trump Administration<\/a>. The republicans didnt win it. They won it by four points. Democrats say the president ial resistance to trump, maybe you are seeing that in the house race. Last fall in the mid term, there it is. Democrat wins the district. So that kind of movement in the suburbs, that area of georgia, democrats think maybe, maybe georgia is the kind of state they can put in play. It could make it a blue state in 2020. So from the green of augusta to red and blue, a little bit of everything. You outdid yourself tonight. West point graduate, scratch golfer and so badly in need of a tailor. Another break for us. When we come back, why many are asking why a certain story just isnt getting as much traction as youd think. This isnt a happy or light topic, but perhaps it says something about our times that at this very moment and for the past several days our president stands accused in effect of rape. Make no mistake, the allegation against this president is the most serious of all the allegations in the Public Domain<\/a> by women against donald trump. The reaction to this story and the absence of a widespread outcry is truly surprising. During normal times this would be beyond a lead story. The allegation contained in a new book by e. Jean carol about an encounter with trump close to 20 years ago at a changing room here in new york. By her description, it started out light hearted and became a fight after he forced himself on her and violated her sexually. She told her story on this Network Friday<\/a> night. It became a fight. And it was it hurt. And it was against my will. And it i dont know where i got the strength, because he was big. I think f i was stomping my foot. I had my hand bag. I had no idea. The only reason i know im holding it is because when i got out in the street, i still had it in my hand. Somehow i got my knee up and pushed him back. And the minute he backed up, i was out the door. I felt the situation was my fault. I blamed myself for that. I said i am the stupidest woman who has ever walked. And i did that for years. And i still cant kick that feeling that it was my fault. Its hard to get rid of that. The president denied ever having met her, but a photo shows the two of them at a new york gathering years ago. The president with his thenwife and carroll with john johnson. Today the president in an interview with the hill said ms. Carroll is quote totally lying. He went on number one, she is not my type. Number two, it never happened. It never happened, okay. The president remains accused of Sexual Misconduct<\/a> by over a dozen other women for his alleged actions over the years. And thats going to do it for our broadcast tonight. Thank you so much for being here with us. Good night from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. The white house moves to block Kellyanne Conway<\/a> from testifying. The white House Counsel<\/a> has advised her not to show up tomorrow","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia903002.us.archive.org\/10\/items\/MSNBCW_20190625_080000_The_11th_Hour_With_Brian_Williams\/MSNBCW_20190625_080000_The_11th_Hour_With_Brian_Williams.thumbs\/MSNBCW_20190625_080000_The_11th_Hour_With_Brian_Williams_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240617T12:35:10+00:00"}