Pressing, one of the most pressing issues in not just the American Court system but American Society given the role of the courts. Im going to get into something later in the hour and im very specifically avoiding and that is commenting on Robert Kennedy junior. I have reasons for my reluctance, including my experience with him in my college class, which im gonna talk about a little bit. But today was the day with his testimony that i can no longer avoid it, and im going to have to, itll be more than a few years words, and it will be later in the hour. There is much to say about him. I have a bit to say about him, and this is the night for that. I am eager for a deep cut on you and robert f. Kennedy junior in college. So i will be tuning in for that. For many reasons. Have a good show. The attorney for the dammed, thats how the newest member of Donald TrumpsCriminal Defense Team was described in a New York Times profile written about him over 15 years ago. John laurel served as a federal prosecutor in brooklyn before crossing into the other side of the courtroom, as happens so often with prosecutors, and then serving as a criminal defense attorney, who quickly became known for working on extremely difficult cases. John laurel will be joining the Criminal Defense Team for whatever indictments jack smith s January 6th Grand Jury might return against donald trump, who has already received a Target Letter about that investigation from jack smith for possible crimes leading up to and on january 6th. One of the busiest lawyers in the trump and trump adjacent Criminal Defense Team is the washington lawyer Stanley Woodward, who represents Donald Trumps codefendant, walter nauta. Today, Stanley Woodward was at the courthouse in washington Representing Another Trump Employee named william russell, who was giving testimony to jack smiths January 6th Grand Jury. While his client was in the grand jury room, Stanley Woodward was supposed to be in another courtroom in the same building for the delivery of the verdict in the trial of Federico Klein for his part, his violent part in the attack on the capital on january 6th. When judge Trevor Mcfadden complained, about Stanley Woodward being late to arrive what turned out to be the guilty verdict against his client client, Gently Woodward told the judge, i couldnt leave my client in the grand jury where he was being asked questions that specifically involved Executive Privilege. Well ask our legal experts in a moment if theres any shred of Executive Privilege left for Trump White House witnesses to hide behind in that grand jury. In an interview, defended trump lied about what it would mean and what would happen if jack smith convicted him of federal crimes. Keep in mind, when you look listen to what donald trump has to say that the full hour interview that he did on fox this week was lower rated than any interviews he ever did on fox during his last president ial campaign. And lower rate to the many hours of this regularly scheduled program on this network, many times in the past. And the crowd in that hour on fox was far more subdued throughout, and at many points looked downright board, in sharp contrast to republican candidate tim scotts recent hour on fox, where tim scott kept the crowd delivering huge ovations for him, enthusiastically throughout the whole hour. Donald Trump Supporters may vote for him, but they are far less passionate than they used to be, and they all know what happens to people who go out and violently protest for donald trump, even when he asks him to do that. They end up in federal prison. And also keep in mind that when donald trump summoned his supporters to please come to the courthouse in manhattan to protest his first arrest and arraignment they did not show up. Millions of trump voters in new york city, new jersey, connecticut, would have within an hours drive of that courthouse in manhattan, and they did not show up to complain in any way. I was there, and the couple of dozen Trump Supporters who showed up were entirely peaceful and on threatening in any way. So when you listen, as we will now do, to donald trump trying to scare you, remember, he has already been arrested and arranged twice and not a single protester, if we can even call them that, for donald trump in new york or florida miss behaved in any way. They just tried to get in front of the cameras and wave to their friends at home. They turned out in very small numbers in both places. And they were not passionate at all. Keep all of that in mind as you listen to donald trump lying and trying to scare you. Its something that concerns you and the people making sure that they dont go out of their right mind if Something Like that happens. Because i know what im thinking can happen if, for example, they do Say Jacks Mitt says okay im going to put donald trump in jail. I think its a very dangerous thing to even talk about, because we do have a tremendously passionate group of voters, and maybe, you know, maybe 100, 150, ive never seen anything like it, much more passion than they had in 2020, much more passion than in 2016. I think it would be very dangerous. Leading off our discussion tonight is christie greenberg, former deputy chief of the Criminal Division and the Southern District of new york, also with this harry litman from a former u. S. Attorney, a Senior Legal Affairs columnist for los angeles times. And harry litman, let me start with you on this Executive Privilege mentioned that happened today about this witness, william russell, appearing in the grand jury. He was an aide who was kind of a low level assistant but constantly with the president in the white house. They called him the body man, always there to handle whatever needs to be handled. We see pictures of him very close to trump when he was president. Is there anything left they can be talking about involving Executive Privilege in that grand jury . Well its his third time testifying in the bigger point i think, there are some real tea leaves here, is that this guy was also with trump at maralago. He has been involved in both investigations. They were talking about Executive Privilege, which we just found out by happenstance means that the testimony was about january six itself. And that intern, to me, suggests that this final charge that has been a bit of a puzzle for us, the first one is the electors, the second is the obstruction focused on pants, that this final charge of 2 41, more likely than not, concerns the events of january six themselves, which we might have expected smith to do, to try for the, swing for the fences in an Insurrection Charge but i think its going to be 2 41 itself and therefore its going to focus on abridgement of the rights maybe of members of congress. So we just found that out by chance but i think it really tells us something. The other thing i would say is, right now i think jack smith is all about speed, and theres really nothing left to do after russell, i think. It was his third time, but they want to get everything straight because hes with the mall of january six. I think now the question is, will trump ask for the final appeal that he is entitled to. I think garland would say it has to be with jack smith, not me. And otherwise i think smith is ready to go. Crystal greenberg, surely there are cases where potential criminal defendants cant think of anything to say in a final appeal meeting which is one reason why they dont all have them. Its not clear to me what angles donald trump could go at in a kind of final deal meeting about january 6th. I expected his lawyers will request that meeting. Why not . Why not at least try to, even if you cant get them to drop all of the chat challenges, see if they wont bring at least some of them. I think you want to bring up issues central to his intent, the criminal intent he may have had, whether he was actually taking any steps in furtherance of a conspiracy or whether he was just having conversations. They will probably try and raise incidents related to president ial immunity. Again, i agree that those are unlikely to be successful, but theyre going to try. Theyre going to make the attempt. Harry, are these primarily listening meetings for the prosecutors . The prosecutors, if you asked for that meeting to appeal, to get to sit there and ask the prosecutors, well, what do you think you have on my client . Great question is no. U. S. Attorney by the special counselor. I was in that position. You sit and hear them out. Its not an occasion for you to reveal anything about your case. You listen. You may pose questions to probe the potential witnesses of what they are saying, but no, this is for them to take their shot. You not at the end politely and thats the end of the meeting. I think here, its a vain exercise that they will do just what they want to go through the motions. Nobody expects this is going to change the outcome of the Target Letter he has received. Christie greenberg, and the tea leaves telling you that this is likely in one defendant indictment that is coming . Its really hard to say. There is so much potential culpability here with respect to other coconspirators. And yet there has not been any public reporting about any other coconspirators receiving such Target Letter, where one defendant, potential defendant, is receiving one, and you expect others to receive them as well. We havent heard about that but where there is a Conspiracy Charge you would expect there would be other conspirators as well. So stay tuned. Former federal prosecutors Kristy Greenberg and harry littman, thank you both for starting off our discussion tonight. Thanks. Coming up, another former federal prosecutor, senator Sheldon Whitehouse and his long lonely crusade on Supreme Court ethics finally came to a vote today in the Senate Judiciary committee and ethics one, even though every republican senator voted for no ethics on the Supreme Court. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse joins us, next. Joins us, next i have Type 2 Diabetes, but i manage it well. Its a little pill with a big story to tell. 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It is a bill to destroy a conservative court. This bill, if enacted, we broadly insert politics into the Supreme Court, and erode away at the checks and balances carefully crafted by our founders. The bill they were talking about today in the Senate Judiciary committee is senator Sheldon Whitehouses bill to reform the ethics of the Supreme Court. Senator graham did not explain why introducing ethics to the Supreme Court would, quote, destroy a conservative court. Other republicans suggested this bill was the first step in what would be a Democratic Party attempt to increase the number of Supreme Court justices, what they call, packing the court. To the commons the some of my colleagues the democrats want to pack the court, my sense is the court has already been packed. It has been path as a result of a very long expensive effort run by a handful of secretive rightwing billionaires, through a bunch of front groups that tally of the cost of the operation has risen from the original 200 and 50 million estimate the Washington Post and 100 580 million spent on trying to make sure that those billionaires succeeded. Journeys no senator Sheldon Whitehouse, democrat of rhode island, member of the Senate Judiciary committee, and chair of the Senate Subcommittee on federal courts. Hes also the host of the podcast, making the case. Senator whitehouse, congratulations on getting your bill to a vote and winning that vote. But let me ask you about what we just heard senator graham say. He said that this bill would destroy a conservative court. Why would ethics destroy a conservative court . Maybe if theyre not hanging out with their Pet Billionaires they would know what to do . It doesnt make any sense at all. Im afraid [laughter]. As you went through the process dealing with other amendments today, it turns out that the democrats on the Committee Want to see some kind of Workable Ethics Arrangement at the supreme and republicans simply dont. They dont want anything. Yeah. They dont even want the provision that is the first provision of the bill that says okay Supreme Court youve got 180 days to do it your way before anything we do goes into effect. And if you do, then we dont. So its hard to see how you destroy a court by empowering the courage to put an ethics regime over itself. Telling things about the republicans behavior today was first, they never once defended any of the revelations about the misconduct of the justices. Not once. Instead, amidst the usual cascade of smears and innuendos and unfounded conclusions about court destruction, they made up destructions about that the court itself has rejected as ridiculous. So you can win by a little, win by a lot, but on top of that is a question of narrate and credibility of your adversaries arguments. And when you see arguments made like the republicans made in the committee today, it puts wind in your sails because clearly the other side knows its got no case. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, im very much wanted to get yo