The day's biggest political and news stories, with interviews and reporting from around the nation. leadership criticisms for this president that we know about, let's be clear and fair. anger, ego, incompetence, that's not enough. the higher bar here is corrupt intent in a person's mind. so mueller is saying, like any careful prosecutor, he must question trump before he can conclude his work. and tonight trump's lawyers are leaking their new ongoing negotiations with mueller to show that as of tonight, they're not accepting this full interview yet. so they're using two tactics. leaking information with their new letter to mueller about a kind of a narrower counteroffer, and also talking to each other, these lawyers, in a radio call-in show, an appearance that can only be described as another bizarre chapter in one of the most bizarre live action legal defenses of a president in our history. we give you the unusual scene this morning. rudy giuliani joining trump lawyer jay sekulow on sekulow's radio show where they also took questions from listeners. >> is there a deadline that you're trying to hit in responding to the special counsel? >> look, we don't have an internal deadline. mayor, i know you've said and i've said we want to see this come to closure soon here. mayor? >> yeah, we do. yeah, it's about time that it ends. we do not want to run into the november elections. so back up from that. this should be over with by september 1st. >> trump's lawyers, using their public profiles on a radio show to leak their negotiations in realtime and create more media content. that is what's happening right now. now here was their discussion of the big enchilada, the trump interview. >> if there's going to be an interview, let's have it. he's got all the information he needs. the interview will provide nothing in addition to what he already has. so he can write his report. we have been willing to say here's the answer he will give and we'll be stuck with it. >> and of course the question will be, look, we have an ongoing dialogue with the office of special counsel in a professional manner. >> it went on like that. we try to be as fair as possible here, but what i'm about to say does sound negative about mr. giuliani. the fact is he's a former federal prosecutor. when he claims a prosecutor does not need to interview key subjects of a probe under oath, he knows he's not telling the truth. he knows that's absurd, and he knows there must be some other reason they want to shield their client, donald trump, from going in and telling the truth about what he did or didn't do. now, this isn't exactly a spoiler, but bob mueller doesn't do radio call-in shows so he won't be leaking in realtime his response to what looks like an escalation in these negotiations. but we do know if mueller terms as a legal matter that this interview is necessary and the white house won't provide it at the scope that he believes is legally required, mueller has the option of taking this president to court, a fight that all expect would go all the way up to the supreme court where trump is currently trying to install a hand-picked judge known for his skepticism of the power of prosecutors like bob mueller. so let's get to it. i'm joined by l.e. honig, joyce vance and mike lupica. i'll begin with you. you've tried many cases and been around many cases. have you ever seen live leaks of interview negotiations on a call-in show. >> no, i've never seen anything like it. i think what's happening is there's a chess game getting under way. rudy giuliani is making these demands on conditions for an interview that are really just outrageous. he wants written questions. i've done hundreds of witness interviews. i've never once submitted a written question. it defeats the whole purpose. you need to size the person up. you don't just want their lawyer to turn out some lawyerly response. certain areas are out of bounds. >> well, in a lot of cases there's what's called interrogatories which are the kind of low stakes written question thing that nobody considers as serious as a real interview. >> exactly, they're formalities. it's no substitute for sitting across from someone and sizing them up. >> and i believe, mike lupica, if you could work on a lyric about interrogatories, you have one minute. you get a minute. no, you work on it. i'm coming to you in a minute. i want to give you a heads-up. >> i'm ready. >> i don't think mueller is going to agree. mueller has been at this longer than me. if mueller doesn't agree, the thing that giuliani knows full well is mueller has the leverage here. if mueller doesn't like the terms, he'll hit him with a subpoena and then we're in courts. here's where i think the play is in doing this silly radio staged show today, if it goes to the courts, it's going to drag on up to and through the midterms, and i think that the purpose of today's show was to allow giuliani to say, see, we wanted to do this but mueller took us to court and he's politicizing this right before the midterms. >> i want to be clear. you're suggesting that jay sekulow live has a purpose. i don't know that we've been able to confirm that yet, mike lupica. i don't know that that radio show has a purpose or not, all respect given. i want to play a little bit more from, again, the bizarre interactions on this show with callers and then your response, mike, take a look. >> the taxpayers have been paying for this so-called special investigation that is clearly biased against our president. >> i have never heard of a case run by an fbi agent who displayed hatred for the person that he was looking at. mueller didn't find out about it, it had to be presented to him. and then he stayed with the fbi for another year. it's ridiculous. >> mike, beyond the evident catharsis of screened callers held back. this is sort of the person at the bar except it's at mueller's office. hold me back, hold me back, i really want to fight. sometimes people asking to be held back don't want to fight. and the fight with words sitting down under oath with bob mueller is not a problem if you don't necessarily have anything to hide and you can carefully accurately answer questions. as for where it all leads, joyce, we did a little digging and want to show, all jokes aside about the call-in show, we are headed towards a potential real interbranch conflict. the last time this escalated, it didn't go all the way to the court because bill clinton did back down under subpoena. take a look. >> the president has been subpoenaed by the independent counsel. >> his lawyers back in washington were preparing to negotiate with independent counsel kenneth starr for his testimony. >> he's said to be insisting on the right to question the president in person. >> the president will testify about his relationship with a former intern under oath and on tape for the grand jury. >> joyce. >> so interesting to remember and i think important to remember that every version that we have of what mueller wants in this regard comes from rudy giuliani or other members of the president's team. robert mueller isn't telling us whether or not he wants to interview the president nor has he revealed his hand as to whether he might use a subpoena if the president doesn't agree to one. and i think it's really important for us to remember that, because federal prosecutors very often don't get to interview targets or even subjects in cases. but back to the point that you make, ari, it's very telling when an individual doesn't want to be interviewed voluntarily, particularly when they're maintaining their innocence and saying that they're merely a witness in the case, no obstruction, no collusion. well, if not, why not go ahead and submit to the interview. it's only a perjury trap if you intend to lie, after all. >> yeah, i agree. look, there's a very easy way to avoid a perjury trap, which is don't commit perjury. i don't think mueller will walk away, i really don't. there's already been reporting that he intends to do this interview. he needs to do this interview for the reasons you said. trump has stated his intent every which way. he's taken both sides, five sides of every issue, so he needs to be pinned down and put on record in a way he can't squirm away from. the only real way to do that is by an interview or in the grand jury. >> right. i want to revisit some of the questions here, joyce, that did leak, as you say from the white house side but were fact checked by "the new york times" and special counsel didn't object to these as being on the money. when did you become aware of that trump tower meeting. the discussions about any of these meetings with putin. the knowledge or outreach including manafort, who's on trial right now, to russia about this assistance to the campaign and then of course communications between roger stone, associates, julian assange, wikileaks. fascinating that last bullet because we're covering whether assange will speak out in any capacity. there's a lot of legal reasons to be dubious about charging websites, publishers or platf m platforms in the united states. that's not typically done. but what does that line of questioning tell you and also roger stone be risky for the president? >> mueller is clearly looking at both obstruction of justice but also still at what we've come to call collusion, this idea of conspiracy to defraud the united states. and it looks from this list of questions like the president is either to believed to be either a very central witness or perhaps a subject or a target. of course we all know that mueller won't really indict the president, but he could write a very damaging report that would go up to the hill discussing the president's participation in all of these efforts vis-a-vis russia. if this reporting is in fact correct and these are the topics that mueller wants to question the president about, he's seeking to answer these fundamental questions of what did the president know, when did he know it and what did he do? and that makes it look like the president is a target more than anything else. >> right. and that's what we keep going back to is what is his exposure. if the lawyers want to take the position that is a potential target who needs fifth amendment or other types of protection, they could take that. instead they are clearly baiting mueller along, saying this is taking too long, while they won't make the move that will decide whether it's going to go to court or not. mike, did you have any lyrics before we go? >> well, i was just thinking that trump is probably in a kendrick lamar situation. all we ask is trust, all we got is us. but then you see those two lawyers on the radio show and you think if that's the quality of the defense, he might be screwed. >> elie? >> i'm going a little older with don't ask why, i've got my own reasons. tribe called quest. >> that by the first tribe bars on "the beast." i was think we all talk more about tapes, vintage 50 cent. i do what i want, the d.a. can play this tape in court. my special thanks to elie honig. joyce and mike stay with me. as we mention, the tapes, omarosa recording trump inside the white house. the reporter who broke the story. also the republican member of congress who endorsed trump first. indicted tonight. we'll bring you his side of the story. and now the news that the russia probe could turn to julian assange. i have an exclusive with one of these people in the united states who's interviewed assange and stays in touch with him. i'm ari melber and you're watching "the beat" on msnbc. ♪ when i touch you like this learn more at theexplorercard.com are you ready to take your then you need xfinity xfi.? a more powerful way to stay connected. it gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most wifi coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. it's the ultimate wifi experience. xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. if you live like a reality show and you govern like a reality show, you have to be prepared for your reality show staff to go full reality show on you. "the daily beast" now reporting the infamous former "apprentice" star omarosa secretly recorded conversations with president trump at the white house. conversations played for people while pushing her new tell-all book called "unhinged." this echos a promise she did make the day after being ousted. >> as the only african-american woman in this white house, as a senior staff and assistant to the president, i have seen things that have made me uncomfortable, that have upset me, that have affected me deeply and emotionally, that has affected by community and my people. and when i can tell my story, it is a profound story that i know the world will want to hear. >> everybody wants to hear the story, and she has been slowly teasing it out. she went on "celebrity big brother" and described a kind of a haunted feeling in the white house. >> like i was haunted by tweets every single day. like what is he going to tweet next. it was bad. >> should we be worried? don't say that. >> should we be worried? another question is should we be whispering? anyway, this isn't the first time we have heard about secret audio tapes. michael cohen, famously taped the president. we've already heard some of those already leak. >> you never know where that company -- you never know where he's going to be. >> if he gets hit by a truck. >> correct. i'm all over that. i've spoken to alan about that when it comes to the financing. >> what financing? >> we'll have to pay -- >> pay with cash? >> no. no, no, no, no, no. >> this is a big scoop and the person who wrote the scoop, "daily beast" locklan markee is with us. what do you see as the significance of this story? >> we spoke to three sources, one of whom has heard this recording and two have had the contents described to them. it's nothing quite so incriminating as the michael cohen recordings, but i think it does point to a major breach of trust by someone who is very close to the president, very close to the first family, and really tells everyone that she meets about how much the president trusts her. and, you know, the president did like her and she was very close to that sort of inner circle of aides and family members. so for her to be secretly recording conversations with the president points to a major breakdown in trust. now that she's marketing a book suggests that she's sort of had her eye towards those post white house plans for quite some time. >> yeah. another clear implication is that if you're recording the president, you're talking to the president. that would appear to contradict the cover story they gave, which has been a familiar to many departing aides who the white house has tried to play down their actual role. take a look. >> omarosa was fired three times on "the apprentice" and this is the fourth time we let her go. she had limited contact with the president while here. she has no contact now. >> that word "limited contact," as you know most people who work in an administration have literally zero conversations with the president. these tapes would suggest that she had more contact than the white house let on. >> well, i do think she had less contact than she felt she was entitled to, given her long history with the president, and in fact that's what really led to her downfall at the white house was this scene where she, as it was described to us, stormed the white house residence in an attempt to confront the president about aides that she felt were undermining her and shutting her out. there was a concerted effort by chief of staff john kelly to really limit access to the president in the oval office. so i think she probably had a lot more access early on in the white house, saw that diminish. that really upset her and it ended with her being escorted off the white house grounds for trying to literally confront and call out the president for that. >> mike, you saw the important recording that we garnered from "celebrity big brother" in the introduction to the segment and i want to play for you some earlier omarosa because it's not like any of this couldn't have been predicted when it goes to donald trump's judgment about who he wants to let in run the government, be paid by our tax dollars and have access to all sorts of private interactions. this is a person who has prided herself and mr. trump on settling scores. take a look. >> every critic, every detractor will have to bow down to president trump. it's everyone who's ever doubted donald, who ever disagreed, who ever challenged him. it is the ultimate revenge to become the most powerful man in the universe. >> to state the obvious, which is part of my job these days, mike, being entrusted with the nuclear codes and leading the united states is an act of public service, is not supposed to be chiefly thought of as a chance for personal revenge. >> he sure can pick 'em, can't he? where does he find these people? he's obsessed with building a wall. he needs to build one around the oval office because, ari, how far are we from people getting patted down before they go in and sit down and cross the desk from him? >> yeah, and so do you think there is something here, mike, that's larger than omarosa and all of the attendant drama in her book promotion and the rest? >> yeah. i think he -- i think they don't trust him. we constantly hear how the most important thing to this president is loyalty. okay? but you tell me where we can find it these days. cohen, omarosa, and i don't think these are the last times we're going to hear about people taping this guy. i think eventually there's going to be a conga line of people coming forward to say, no, no, listen to mine first. >> lochlan, how do you go about reporting something like this out and we're not just promoting her book. what do you think is significant for the type of decisions donald trump has made and also when you go into this what has been described by others and even a lot of serious people as a really tense environment in the white house where everyone is lawyered up and worried about tapes, we still have a government that needs to be staffed and run. do you see an implication here for the quality and the type of people who are brought into this white house? >> well, i think from the very beginning there's been a sense of sort of a lack of solidarity, whether it was between the various sort of camps that split into opposing factions from very early on to folks sort of accusing each other of leaking as a way of settling personal scores or getting in the president's good graces. in fact we got an advance copy of an excerpt of omarosa's book in which she recalls assembling a list of alleged leakers at ivanka trump's request that then communications director anthony scaramuccitasked with firing. one of them was fired. one of the larger excerpts and this larger story of omarosa recording these conversations is just a total lack of trust between the people who work in the white house. it's very difficult to form coherent policy or messaging when nobody trusts each other all the way up to the president and his tighten inner circle of aides. >> i think that's well put and again that goes to who's in charge and their obsession with leaks and media. granted, we are part of covering things, but their obsess covering it is really notable and it comes on a day when the other folks, the lawyers, are doing their own radio tour instead of their work. it's a remarkable situation that shouldn't be completely normalized, even though it is a daily thing. thanks with the big scoop for joining us and mike lupica doing double duty. straight ahead, donald trump's first congressional endorser, chris collins, charged with insider trading and lying to the fbi. we have the story when we're back in just 30 seconds. this il and packages. and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail they're handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you ♪ breaking news tonight and it is a shocker to many. donald trump's first congressional endorser arrested and charged in a new criminal scheme. we're just learning the details. his name, chris collins, a new york republican congressman. he will speak for the first time on this tonight. he was arraigned today on these new charges of insider trading and lying to the feds. now, what is alleged here is that collins was using secret information, sharing it with other people to help basically his friends and family save hundreds of thousands of dollars with illegal trades off that secret intel. now, politically the context here matters. he was the first congressman to endorse donald trump, widely known as trump's man on the hill. you can see them together at a white house picnic in june. and endorsing trump in 2016. >> donald trump as president is the man to make america great again. we need to elect a chief executive, not a chief politician. he is the best negotiator i've ever seen or met. >> mimi rocah joins me, a former federal prosecutor in the southern district of new york where these charges of filed today, and joyce vance, also a former federal prosecutor experienced in these kind of cases and we benefit from her expertise here as well. let's talk about what it means to charge a member of congress with insider trading, all equal before the law but it is more complex than a garden variety finance case. >> yes. but i think it's important to note that obviously the charges are not connected to his position as congressman. but i do think it's important to note his position because jeff berman, the u.s. attorney who brought these charges, in the press release and at the press conference noted it. he said this is a man who's charged with writing these nation's laws and he thought he was above those laws. i think that's a really good point. this is someone who, you know, is not trading on information he got as a congressman, but while in that position of trust with the american people, he's blatantly violating the securities fraud law. >> right. and this is not a legal term of art, but he is an elite. this is not someone who got mixed up in something and seems somehow unsophisticated or taken for a ride. this is someone who, as you say, while it's not germane exactly to the case, when you build a case for jurors if it goes that far, you're saying a betrayal of public trust, a person who knew better, wrote the laws which can go to their state of minding and someone who basically is an insider and charged with insider trading. >> and he sat on the board of directors, he held a lot of stock. it's interesting because it reminds me of donald trump in the sense that we've been talking about how donald trump seems willing to flout the law in plain view. this wasn't in plain view but it was pretty close. it wasn't under the table either. i mean they were doing this over e-mail acti e-mail, on the phone. this was not a smart insider trading scheme. it seemed very brazen. >> you're saying they were not very fertive. >> yes. >> and you think that means what, arrogance, stupidity? >> stupidity, i think. it goes back to he thinks he's above the law and he's not going to get caught. clearly the southern district has put together a really lock, stock and barrel case here. you can see that just from the indictment. it looks like they have people who are cooperating, because they seem to have the content of some calls, though i don't think there's a wiretap. they have the paper trail that you need for an insider trading case like this. it seems like a very strong case. >> joyce, take a listen to donald trump praising him. we report a lot on when donald trump says things that are false or provable lies. here this seemed like donald trump being very candid in admitting that he doesn't have any strong feeling about chris collins and didn't know much about him, but when he learned that chris collins liked him and was endorsing him, that changed his feelings. take a look. >> congressman chris collins. where's chris, where's chris. oh, chris, right from the beginning he said trump is going to win. trump is going to win. that's why i like him. i didn't like him that much before, now i love him. >> a little bit of an old school jay z attitude, either love me or leave me alone. donald trump loving the love. how does this work legally when you have this very close political relationship and we've seen the way the white house has distanced itself from its own former campaign aides in the mueller probe? >> it won't take long for collins to be the newest coffee boy, someone who trump didn't know well, he didn't stick around for very long. but the implications of this indictment i think are very interesting. along with collins, his son is indicted, his son's fiancee's father is indicted. as mimi correctly points out, the government appears to have a very strong case. so there will be pressure on collins to plead. and the interesting question that's on the table is what can he offer up to the government? could he, for instance, have interesting information about the president of the united states or was he really just a coffee boy? >> that's a tantalizing thing, and mimi, we don't want to get too far out ahead of it because we don't have reporting that suggests that, but we do know that this office where you worked, this is not your typical office. this is the center of wall street, the center of a lot of terror and national security cases, and the political cases that have come out of this office have been hard charging. former sdny lawyer preet bharara was charging people in the state legislature, we've seen federal cases. is it possible that if we learn anything, how does it work? how do they share that? >> you mean in terms of cooperating him? >> yeah, if he ponies up something they didn't know he knew. >> it's all within the same office. right now the securities fraud unit, you know, in that office is in charge of the case. but if he has information that would be relevant to other public corruption type prosecutions, they would just, you know, walk down the hall to their colleagues at the public corruption unit and share it with them. >> so they're not restricted from coordinating on it? >> no, absolutely. that happens all the time, where someone is charged with one type of crime but then has information to offer against individuals on a completely different type of crime. it's within the same office. it doesn't matter. it gets a little more complicated from office to office, but even that happens. but here it would be a united team i'm sure. >> and that's fascinating. we're not there yet but that's something that's come up a lot and members of congress do know more than as we put it the average bear. my thanks to mimi and joyce. coming up, salacious questions in the manafort trial. a star witness pressed on the allegations of his own extramarital affairs. first, top senators focusing on julian assange as part of the russia probe. i will speak to assange associating randy who has talked to roger stone and a lot of other issues on this story. randy, thanks for coming in. >> it's a pleasure. what a great show. almost anything. even "vengeful vermin." not so cute when they're angry. and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ do you want the same tools and seamless experience across web and tablet? yes? great! then you're ready for power e*trade. the platform, price and service that gives you the edge you need. sweet! e*trade. the original place to invest online. i'm begging you... take gas-x.ed beneath the duvet your tossing and turning isn't restlessness, it's gas! gas-x relieves pressure, bloating and discomfort... fast! so we can all sleep easier tonight. before you can achieve a higher standard of craftsmanship, you need a higher standard of craftsman. see for yourself at the lexus golden opportunity sales event. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. ♪yeah ♪and i just wanna tell you right now that i♪ ♪i believe, i really do believe that♪ ♪something's got a hold on me, yeah♪ ♪oh, it must be love ♪oh, something's got a hold on me right now, child♪ ♪oh, it must be love ♪let me tell you now, oh it must be love♪ what's happening now, assange was open to speaking to congressional investigators. >> i had gone there with a mandate for mr. assange from mr. schiff to interview him. >> wait, what? you have julian assange willing to speak to adam schiff's committee? >> yes, yes. >> why does he want to speak to adam schiff? >> because he can clear it all up. if he wants to go over there, he's waiting for him. >> that news broke right here on msnbc. there was pushback from the hill, but now we're seeing this new thing on wikileaks including from something we all learn about after the fact. bob mueller has been referencing the organization in his questioning and his work and his new indictments of russian hackers. it doesn't call out wikileaks by name, but it refers to it as organization 1. you see it there over and over and over, organization 1 wiki leaking is key to what the russians did. there were other connections as well. the trump campaign had donald trump jr. busted. roger stone exchanging messages and claiming that he had additional communication with them. >> i actually have communicated with assange. i believe the next bunch of documents pertain to the clinton foundation but there's no telling what the october surprise may be. >> stone has since walked some of that back. then there is the candidate himself willing to take their help. >> it's been amazing what's coming out on wikileaks. >> this wikileaks is unbelievable. >> wikileaks, i love wikileaks. >> i am joined now by randy credico. you are, i will note, a somewhat controversial figure. but what you said on this news program appears to have been borne out in public now. why is julian assange saying he's willing to talk, and do you think he really would talk to investigators? >> well, i think that he would, provided that the parameters are set in a way that's not unfavorable to him. and it can't be a trap. they have to treat him respectfully and they have to do it with a lot of professionalism, not just go in there and do some kind of surprise attack. >> do you believe as someone who's interacted with him, and you have been favorable to him -- >> yes. >> -- that he will be accurate to the u.s. committees about a matter that he has appeared to prejudge and been defensive about, saying this is all garbage? >> well, i think he -- listen, you have to sit down with the person. he's a very honest individual, very forthright, a man of grave integrity. i think that if they work it out, it would be a real boon. i think you'll find out there isn't that much to it. at least that's what i feel. >> that much to the idea that this was an espionage operation rather than wikileaks saying however many governments are mad at it, they often upset material that they don't think is accurate. we talk to you because you talk to him. >> the last time was right after i did your show for the very first time. that was the last time we had a communication. he said, by the way, he can't watch your show right now. he is totally gagged. >> what did he say that time? >> he said that you are a very smart guy and he says do your show. he enjoys your show butty can't watch it now. >> he encouraged you to speak on his behalf on the show. >> yes. >> which iinteresting. now, here he is talking to you undermining the idea that there is something to the russia probe. take a look. >> this whole thing about russia and trying to vilify you as some agent of the russians is complete garbage. what is your response to that? >> well, it is complete garbage. it's just complete nonsense. >> so here he was in april saying that. earlier when he did speak to fox news, he also basically denied what has been borne out, what mueller is charging, hasn't been proven in court yet, what the intelligence agencies have asserted, that the russians were behind a lot of this. take a look at his denials to fox news. >> can you say to the american people unequivocally that you did not get this information about the dnc, john podesta's e-mails, can you tell the american people 1,000% you did not get it from russia or anybody associated with russia? >> yes. our source is not the russian government. >> is there value in him saying that to the intelligence committees when you must admit the evidence goes the other way? >> i don't think the evidence goes the other way. i don't think he got it from the russians, i really don't. i'm not convinced -- >> let's pause right there. do you accept -- do you accept that the russians did hack? >> i'm not for sure. i'm not ruling it out that the russians did, but i always have thought that it was a leak. i'm not for sure. no one knows for sure what it really is but i don't think that julian assange -- i will say -- >> the intelligence agencies have concluded this. >> yes. >> donald trump's aides have cleaned up his denials to reassert that it happened that way and mueller has charged it with a lot of detail. again, i have to be clear, it hasn't been proven in court but if your position and assange's position that the original hack wasn't the russians, he might very well end up per injuring himself before the committee. >> i don't think so. he's a very smart man and a very honest person. i think he has a lot to say. if they're looking to get to the bottom of this, he will be totally vindicated. >> how so? >> that's my opinion. >> how so? >> i've been in that embassy -- by the way, the embassy is a very small embassy. it's very hot inside. he is under a lot of pressure. he's been there without any communication for five months, 100 degrees, no air conditioning. i think that he will be vindicated. and what's the charge anyway? he didn't do anything. he's not the guy that like grabbed this stuff out of the dnc file. he just put it out there. what did he do that "the new york times" didn't do or "the washington post" didn't do or what you didn't do or andrew cuomo's brother. >> you're raising a valid legal defense, which is that the platform upon which the stolen material is released is not criminally culpable inside of the united states. >> right. >> sure. but i want to be precise. what julian assange is saying in public is not that, not hey, we're just a platform, but we didn't get it from the russians. if he says that as you know under u.s. law to these committees and that's not true, that's a new problem. >> how can they prove -- >> help us go inside jewel anul assange's mind. does he want to say what he said to fox in a legal proceeding because he's got his legal problems already. >> i don't know what the legal problems are. clandestine charges against julian assange. what could they possibly be? >> you don't know why he's in protected status? >> i know why, because he skipped bail. he skipped bail and that's the reason why they're keeping him in there until he comes out and then they'll arrest him for bail skipping. they don't have charges that have been made public. a lot of people don't think there are charges. remember, this is not the roman empire. in the roman empire in rome you had laws for roman citizens and different laws in macedonia and egy egypt. everybody is subjected to the same laws. the first amendment, whether it's someone from the bbc or somebody from "the london times," they get the benefit of the first amendment. so does he. >> let me read to you from the indictment just to make sure we're clear on this. organization 1, this is the mueller indictment. organization 1 releases 20,000 e-mails, it says stolen from the dnc network. wikileaks released 20,000 e-mails as is well known july 22nd from the dnc. >> right. >> do you have any reason other than your affinity for assange to doubt this material? >> i believe that that stuff was released. where it came from i have no idea. i certainly know he did not get it from the russians. and i -- prove me wrong. can you prove me wrong? >> well, i'm showing you the evidence. >> right. well, that's not the evidence, that's something that mueller put out there and his investigators. we don't know for sure where it really came from. you can say 17 -- it's not 17 intelligence community organizations that have signed off on this. that's not true. there's three or four, that's all. >> you're talking about -- there's the director of national intelligence and all these other intelligence arms under the umbrella. it's all the u.s. government. >> have they ever -- >> you're on a thin read if your problem is how they bureaucratically organize it. >> they said the same thing about the iraqi war, that there was weapons of mass destruction. there were 10 or 12 organizations, same thing about the gulf of tonkin so there's reasons to doubt. >> for viewers watching you and assessing you, you are someone who has been dubious and skeptical of government assertions. >> right. >> and sure, i think the iraq war is one that comes up a lot on the left and the right. donald trump cites it. i think we all know the differences and we're not going to reopen it right now. >> i was against the iraq war. >> i know. but has bob mueller called you in to testify? >> they did. they didn't call me in, they showed up and asked me to come in and do a personal voluntary enter view, which i did not -- >> who is they that showed up? >> somebody from his investigation. >> where did they finding you? >> i don't want to say where, but they found me. >> they came to you in person? >> i'm kind of elusive these days. there are people out there saying bad things about me. >> well, you're making news as you often do. you're confirming that federal agents working for bob mueller came to you in new york? >> yes. >> and what did they ask you? >> they asked me if i would like to do a vol -- well, we set up a conversation with somebody from the mueller team. and they asked my lawyer if i would like to go down and do a voluntary interview. and he said no. i didn't get a subpoena. they asked me for a voluntary interview. >> let's make sure we understand. i don't believe you've said this on air before. >> probably not. >> okay. so let's make sure we understand it because the probe is of great interest and you're in there as an associate, and i'm not implying anything negative about you but as a known associate of roger stone and julian assange. >> don't say associating e of s. i know stone. andrew miller is an associate of stone. >> you're here to give your side of the story. what word would you use. >> someone who has worked with stone before but not an associate. >> a form colleague? >> i've worked on a campaign or two with roger stone in the past. 16 years i've known the guy. >> it sounds like you're going up from associate, not down when you say 16 years. >> we've an llc together, you know, i don't know. i've known him, we've gone years without talking to each other. he did my radio show. the whole year 2016, every month i had him on because he is great to have on television. >> randy, your radio show punches way above its weight. >> it does. >> and political activist for a long time. i just want to be clear what we're learning from you but what you're telling us tonight on your assertion is federal agents came to you in new york and asked you for a voluntary interview from the mueller probe, presumably about stone and wikileaks, correct? >> listen, i -- i'm not going t tell you specifically for. i can't you specifically. >> as a lawyer -- >> there's a reason why they came to me and i kept this under my hat for at least six weeks. i didn't want to talk about it because i don't want to instigate the special prosecutor, okay? >> i understand that and we're just trying to learn facts here but they came to you -- >> they did. >> -- for a voluntary interview -- >> no, they set up a conversation with my lawyer for the following monday -- >> and your lawyer declined to make you available for a voluntary interview. >> yes, yes. >> how long ago was that? >> i don't know, five or six weeks ago. >> and you have not heard from them since? >> do you think i'm clear? >> do i think you're clear? >> what would rudy giuliani say? he'd say five years, six years, whatever. this has been one good thing about this, i do a great rudy giuliani. >> we're not doing impressions -- you can do one impression. >> i've got to tell you, followers get mad at me when i do impressions. i was waiting to do reagan impression. >> we are not doing impressions. >> i am doing it in september. >> you have one more thing, what is it? >> i watched you fill in for rachel maddow and that tie you were wearing. this is from 1998, a special limited edition andy warhol. >> this is kind of you. we will run it through the ethics department here, i appreciate you coming by. >> it was a gift from a gift. >> it is interesting. thank you, as always. running over on time, so we will be back. if you're turning 65, you're probably learning about medicare and supplemental insurance. medicare is great, but it doesn't cover everything - only about 80% of your part b medicare costs, which means you may have to pay for the rest. that's where medicare supplement insurance comes in: to help pay for some of what medicare doesn't. learn how an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by united healthcare insurance company might be the right choice for you. a free decision guide is a great place to start. call today to request yours. so what makes an aarp medicare supplement plan unique? well, these are the only medicare supplement 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