The days biggest political and news stories, with interviews and reporting from around the nation. Youve got Michael Cohen, of course, guilty. These are individuals who were incredibly close to the president of the United States of america, and weve got to get an answer to the question, what did the president know . When did he know it . When this crime spree was taking place all around him. Weve got to clean up corruption with this administration, and washington, d. C. , restore our democracy for the people. We played maya some sound bites of those that are coming out and defending the president , saying this is not a crime. Some to maybe some extent are saying, yeah, maybe its legally a crime, but its like a smaller crime, a 12k3450ermisdemeanor. What is your read of what Michael Cohen did . Is it significant or not, is it being blown out of the proportion for political reasons . Its extremely significant because it goes directly to whether or not a candidate, donald trump, directed Michael Cohen, his attorney, to essentially quiet a scandal that
regularly d regularly demonstrates that theres a real issue about whether our Commander In Chief is actually a commander in thief . Interesting. Let me ask you about that money aspect. The argument, that the president is asking somebody to do it, commanding them to do it, paying them out of his own money, that its not a crime. Had cohen done this on his own without the president s knowledge, he would be liable for this. To that end, that trump says its not a crime because its his own money . All due respect to the professor, i think hes wrong here. Admit the conduct, then deny the conduct, then deny that its criminal. And the professor is part of that. Even under his read its an expenditure. And if its an expenditure, it needs to be reported and the president did not report it. Therefore, he filed false paperwork with federal
authorities. So either way the president is in criminal trouble. How severe is that to not report it . Could it be negligence and negligence in itself is not as significant as the intent to cover up . Yeah, thats a key question. If he knew about it, and i think theres ample evidence he knew, its more than negligence, its willful. Keep in mind, this is effectively what john edwards was prosecuted for and brought to trial for years ago, edwards was acquitted because there wasnt enough proof that the expenditures were made to protect him in the campaign. The argument was he was trying to protect his privacy and his family. Here if you look at the amounts, as maya pointed out, and the timing, these alleged affairs happened many, many years before and then just weeks before the election, thats when they need to cover them up. Michael cohen was reimbursed after the president got after the president got into the white house. Reimbursed, Rudy Giuliani said imagine if this had come out on october 15th, 2016. He, himself, even as he was trying to argue this was about
protecting the marriage of the president in the same breath said suggested about the election. And the politics of it. Speak about the politics of it, given what we see emerge over the past 24, 48 hours, are we beginning to see republicans crack here in their unity around the president , their support for this president . Do other colleagues share your sentiment that you expressed earlier that theres a cloud of suspicion over 1600 that needs to be addressed . I certainly hope so. This is not democratic or republican, its an american issue. But what weve seen from my colleagues on the House Judiciary Committee on the republican side and throughout the republican conference is that theyve engaged, not as americans, but as part of the cover up caucus. Basically, to hide and to cover up the things that donald trump has done relative to crimes that may have been committed at his direction, or through his underlings, possibly connected to collusion with russia to sell out our democracy. Instead of trying to get to the bottom of what has occurred,
they basically are taking orders from donald trump to cover it all up. And thats shameful, irresponsible and a dereliction of duty relative to who we are as a separate and coequal branch of government. Let ple me ask you, maya, ab what has happened with Michael Cohen. Hes saying, hes a bad lawyer, if youre looking for a lawyer, hire him. But for manafort, praise, sympathy for him, saying he was a brave man. Why the difference . How do you read the difference between these two men that served very intimately with the president . Very clearly. Michael cohen flipped on the president. He pointed the finger, he called him out, he said he committed a crime. Paul manafort refused to actually cooperate with prosecutors. He did not plead guilty to any of his crimes. He went through the entire Court Process and had to be actually found guilty by a jury of his peers. So what the president is signaling, both to both toPaul Manafort as well as to others out there who may have to make a decision about whether or not theyre going to cooperate with prosecutors and investigators, hes saying if you stick by me i will stick by you. If you turn on me, i will come at you, guns blazing. And to that point, lets ask about pardons. Because this is kind of like the big question Everyone Wants to know, something Sarah Huckabee sanders was asked about today. Take a listen to lanny davis talking about a possible pardon for Michael Cohen. Is he hoping for a pardon from President Trump . Not only is he not hoping for it, he would not accept a pardon. He considers a pardon from somebody who has acted so corruptly as president to be something he would never accept. So what is your take on what you just heard there from lanny davis . I take lanny davis at his word on that. I dont think theres any chance Michael Cohen receives a pardon, even if he did, it wouldnt necessarily shut him up. Against this president . Were going to remain focused on drive down the costs of Health Care Spiraling out of control because of republican recklessness, increase the pay of the american worker, wage stagnation, Underemployment Challenges throughout america, and were going to focus on cleaning up corruption. Now, we fought for the recusal of jeff sessions. He recused himself. He fought for the appointment of a Special Counsel, bob mueller was appointed. So now we just have to let mueller be mueller, do his work. Finish the investigation. Report to the American People, report to congress, report to the department of justice. At that point, well let the chips fall where they may. Congressman, appreciate it. Thank you for joining. Maya and elie, stick around. Sam nunberg actually warned, believe it or not, that cohen could be in trouble. I worry about michael. And im not going to say michael is going to lie. I worry about michael. Sam nunberg is back tonight live on the beat. Plus the emerging dangers for trump, new details about what the president knew and when he actually knew it. And is trumps legal team dangling a pardon for Paul Manafort. What happens if that happens . Im going to talk to a Senate Democrat calling for action. We should talk about all the remedies, every single remedy, including indictment of the president should be on the table. Youre watching the beat right here on msnbc. And seamless experience across web and tablet . Do you want 4. 95 commissions for stocks, 0. 50 Options Contracts . 1. 50 Futures Contracts . What about a dedicated service team of Trading Specialists . Did you say yes . Good, then its time for power e trade. The platform, price and service that gives you the edge you need. Looks like we have a couple seconds left. Lets do some card twirling twirling cards e trade. The original place to invest online. You wouldnt accept from any one else. Why accept it from an allergy pill . Flonase relieves sneezing, itchy, watery eyes and a runny nose, plus nasal congestion, which most pills dont. Its more complete allergy relief. Flonase. So you have, your headphones, chair, new laptop, 24 7 tech support. Yep, thanks guys. I think he might need some support. Yes. Start them off right, with the School Supplies they need at low prices all summer long. Like these for only 2 or less
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tonight, new details about what was really happening on the Trump Campaign while Michael Cohen was admittedly trying to influence the election back in the summer of 2016, then candidate trump fighting Tooth And Nail to get the republican nomination. At the same time cohen was working on a payment to suppress allegations from woman number one, who matches the description of Karen Mcdougal. October of 2016, the month before the election, you may recall that infamous access hollywood tape, it was released. Automatically attracted to beautiful i just start kissing them. Its like a magnet. And when youre a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Whatever you want. Grab them by the [ bleep ] do anything. So then in the days immediately after that, cohen was negotiating 130,000 payment to woman number two, who matches the description of Stormy Daniels. Now to february 2017, trump is president for nearly a month. And already hes been hit with his first major crisis, his National Security adviser Michael Flynn was fired for lying about his contacts with russian officials. The day after his ouster, as trump was dealing with the political backlash of that, Michael Cohen was actually getting he imbursed for his Stormy Daniels payment. In april of this year, the fbi raiding Michael Cohens offices for information on those two payments, trump calling it an attack on our country. They broke into the office of one of my personal attorneys, good man, and its a disgraceful situation, its a total witch hunt, its an attack on our country in a true sense. Its an attack on what we all stand for. Joining me now is former
federal prosecutor, kathy fleming, and criminal defense attorney rodriguez. Kathy, begin with you, yesterday obviously some are calling for President Trump an unindicted coconspirator right now. What does that mean for the president Going Bforward since e cant be indicted . He can be indicted, but he cant be tried while sitting as president. There could be charges against him, i would hope everybody, if they brought charges would keep them in a sealed indictment, i dont think anybody thinks it would be good if we had pending charges of anybody sitting as president in the United States. No matter you think of our sitting president. But the fact is, he could have charges brought against him, cant be tried. Has that been tested in the Supreme Court and upheld . I dont think so. I dont think we have a historical president for anyone being tried. Generally the only way that high
crimes and misdemeanors have been dealt with in our history has been through the avenue of impeachment. Of course we had Richard Nixon who resigned before anything happened. Then we had gerald ford who pardoned him before any charges ever could be brought, if they were going to have been brought. Let me play you this sound byte from Michael Cohen, what he had to say about President Trump as he negotiated that deal to silence Karen Mcdougal. Take a listen to this. Hes more to us than just a boss. Hes a mentor. Hes a sage. Hes like family. And when you have a problem, mr. Trump feels like he has a problem. So we now heard the president has distanced himself from Michael Cohen, called him a bad lawyer. Is trumps best defense here to paint cohen as a liar . What is the best strategy for President Trump . He really only had one strategy, which is to dirty up the witness against him. Thats who Michael Cohen is now after what he said in court
yesterday. And i want to be very clear with the viewers, in federal court, a judge takes an allocution, or a factual basis, done under oath, this is a very big deal what Michael Cohen said yesterday, so the only avenue that trump has is to attack cohen. I dont really think it will be successful given the fact that there are tapes of the conversation involving the payouts. So he President Trump is limited in his defense, and i think this is really going to become more of a Public Relations issue. And to be quite honest, giuliani is not doing a very good job defending him. You talked about giuliani. Interesting you bring that point up. I want to play you the contradicting statements from both trump and giuliani on the Stormy Daniels payment . Do you know about 130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels . Do you know where he got the money to make that payment . No, i dont. Its not campaign money. No Campaign Finance violation. So they funneled it through the law firm. Funneled through a through firm, and then the president repaid it. Oh, i didnt he did . Yeah. The president reimbursed that over a period of several months. So how do you make sense of that when you have the president s lawyer saying, he knew about the payments, the payments came, as he said, funneled through a law firm, and then you had on the left as we played you there aboard Air Force One the president saying he didnt know about the payments and that the payments didnt come from him . Its hard to reconcile the two of those. I dont think its a good idea, and i dont think any lawyer thinks its a good idea to be trying cases in the press, and particularly when you dont know what the facts are, or you cant keep the facts straight. I dont think its advised or well advised for either of them to be talking without knowing what the facts are, and they should figure them out. With the Allocution Yesterday and the documents that came out, weve learned that what happened was the repayment was made, and it was disguised, or it was
labeled legal fees, and it was repaid in 35,000 a month to the law firm of Michael Cohen, quote, for legal fees, another problem, because they werent legal fees, and it was an amount that was higher than originally given to make the payment for keeping her quiet. So both of them are wrong. So to that point, the defense here, if you were trying to put a Defense Strategy that is trying to reconcile what giuliani said, with what the president said, is that even possible, what is your take . Final thoughts on this. Well, look, the only defense that trump had on this was that this was the money wasnt used to pay off both of these women for political reasons, but it was in order to protect his family, that is, he didnt want the first lady, and his children, to know that he had two of these affairs, but hes not willing to say that. So he has maintained, and he even said it today on fox friends, that this was about politics. It Doesnt Matter whether it came from personal funds or campaign funds. It is still a violation of the law to use money for political reasons in a campaign. And that, the real problem, the president has Going Forward. Lot of legal assessment is that it is only going to get worse Going Forward from all the various accounts were getting. Thank you both very much. I want to turn now to former trump aide, sam nunberg, a friend of Michael Cohen. Sam, thank you for being here, a lot of cover with you. Start with your reaction to what weve seen of Michael Cohens admission that the president knew about these payments and, in fact, directed him to make the payments to Karen Mcdougal and Stormy Daniels, woman one and number two. It was clear michael admitted he hired lanny davis, Trump Associates figured he was going to if not flip, if you want to call it flip on the president , with this said i would be interested to see if he is saying that now President Trum