Special programming tonight. We begin with the impeachment investigators getting specific. The Intel Committee has been in investigation. Its like the fbi doing interviews or gathering facts. Moments ago schiffs committee has shown how far they have come because they just released the final interview transcripts. Theres already a new revelation that well get to tonight. A Budget Office attorney resigning over the entire ukraine budget scandal which is part of the ukraine bribery plot. The Judiciary Committee will pick up this case and they are more like the prosecutor. Evaluating the facts, gathering the evidence and applying the law. You can think about it like this, a prosecutor decides whether theres evidence and law to support charges if you are suspected of committing a crime. The president , in the rare cases its the house Judiciary Committee that first decides if the constitution suggests the president committed a high crime. Be that something general like abuse of power or a specific offense like treason or bribery. Late today for the first time, the person who leads that effort in assessing the president s my conduct, jerry nadler laying out how they will do just that. Hes announced the first hearing on december 4th. This is right when Congress Gets back from thanksgiving break. They will begin the process of assessing all of this bombshell evidence and consider whether to draft articles of impeachment against President Trump. This committee will be weighing whether to impeach and if so, how. Do you do one or several . Do you bring in the other alleged offenses by donald trump . He bluffed his way through a lot of the Mueller Probe by claiming he would talk to mueller but he never did. There were the famous written answers. Tonight i can report to you that nadler is calling that bluff right out of the gate inviting donald trump or his lawyer to attend the hearing or question witnesses. The offer is not new because under those rules that Speaker Pelosi and the house passed Trump Lawyers were invited. This is not just talk. Consider that president clinton took up the house on their offer for his lawyer to participate. His personal lawyer even got to question their legal nemesis at the hearings, ken starr. Clinton deployed the powerful White House Office to appear. There was the question of whether the president was misusing those lawyers. Today as we all know, Donald TrumpsPrevious White House counsel is a star mueller witness to alleged obstruction. Thats been a court fight this week the white house has lost and his current white House Counsel office stuck in the middle of this ukraine scandal as the allegations of a cover up pile up. Given all the breaking news what i want to do is bring in our panel of experts on all of the above. I want to welcome joyce vance, a former u. S. Attorney and maya wiley. Welcome to each of you. Theres so much happening now. I would like to get to all of it. Joyce walk us through what it means when chairman nadler said they are announcing the hearings. Maya, id like you to walk us through that they have Budget Officers resigning over these issues, the ukraine plot and glen when youre up third, i want you to tell us what it means that donald trump is distancing himself from Rudy Giuliani tonight. Start with you, joyce. Well be heading into a new phase of the process. Its important to remember that what necessitated the hearings in the Intelligence Committee was there was no special counsel. There were no investigators gathering facts. Thats the mission they have undertaken. They will send the facts along with colleagues on the Foreign Relations committee and the Oversight Committee for s judiciary to take a look at. It would play the role that lawyers would play. Assessing the facts. Looking at the law and making a decision about whether theres sufficient evidence to indict. Except here there wont be any criminal charges. There will be a process that will determine whether or not the president gets to keep his job. As we move forward, judiciary will look at the evidence and decide whether or not treason, bribery, high crimes or misdemeanors have occurred and if so, how to charge the president. Maya. I think this is an extremely important and interesting revelation because government lawyers have an obligation to the public to the rule of law and the public trust. They dont serve an individual. They serve government and the people. If a lawyer, we heard from fiona hill last week that there were legal concerns about the freeze, the omb freeze on Ukrainian Military aid. To the extent there are government lawyers who believe it may have been unlawful, they are often faced with a choice which is either to figure out how to distance themselves, get off the work, report it and w s whistle blow themselves or quit. Do we have lawyers that are flagging and undermining a potential defense that donald trump might assert which is the freeze on aid was a legitimate policy decision that was lawful and if a lawyer or lawyers say its not that undermines his defense. Right. That goes to the two Washington Post stories. One linking the call to the money. Something thats been laid out in the hearings and two breaking here late in the day, these resignations which could suggest people inside who knew more than anyone else and said im not going to go along with a cover up. Who white house budget officials resigning. They are not named but thats what a Top Agency Official have told the house impeachment investigators and then glen, donald trump, in defense mode goes to bill oreilly late today, breaking now and says i didnt direct Rudy Giuliani. He has a lot of clients. Hes been working in ukraine for years. What does that mean . Ill tell you, i think we were all surprised when we recently heard Rudy Giuliani say you know what, ive heard that donald trump may want to throw me under the bus but guess what, ive got an insurance policy. What i would recommend to Rudy Giuliani is he gather up all of the evidence that now constitutes that insurance policy because with donald trump, now saying things like, hey, i didnt direct rudy to do anything in ukraine. You dont have to read between the lines to add. Trump saying anything that was done that was wrong, improper, illegal, thats on Rudy Giuliani. I think the message that is being sent is that Rudy Giuliani better be prepared to take the fall. After all, look at trumps former lawyer, Michael Cohen. Hes in jail for a crime that he did in concert, in coordination with donald trump. Donald trump is still sitting in the oval office. It sounds like trump may be preparing to pull a Michael Cohen on Rudy Giuliani. Its fascinating glen because as you just laid out, giuliani made comments to that. Sdny threw the book at Michael Cohen and he did cooperate. He didnt have the smoking gun evidence to go what was known. It was for the benefit of trump but whether or not he went rogue, sdny listed trump as individual one. He wrote the checks. They didnt go parfarther. If he wasnt the president they might have. Glen, when you see this, i will say in context Rudy Giuliani is a far more experienced practicing attorney than Michael Cohen. Michael cohen called himself a fixer. He didnt file a lot of motions. He did know his way around. Could he end up on the wrong side of this . I think he could. Michael cohens insurance policy. He had one as well. He had the tape where they were setting up the hush money pay off that ended up getting Michael Cohen a prison term because of the ill advised olc memo saying we cant indiect a criminal president. Rudy giuliani may also have an insurance policy. Well have to see what he meant by that. I think he may end up on the losing end of things. I think glen is right but if you just look at facts and what lev parnas is starting to say. Hes making statements that make it hard to believe there was absolutely no discussion with donald trump. We have to hear more but the timing of conversations and public statements between say in may when we hear that theres trump literally said on fox news after a discussion that Rudy Giuliani had made about his public trips that he was going to take to the ukraine on may 9th and that he had talked to trump about it and trump knew about it. Its not as if there arent public statements that make trumps statements just not credible, including from trump himself. This happens at multiple periods of time if we track the time line between Rudy Giuliani trips to the ukraine or conversations with ukrainians and trump public statements about the same conspiracies that hes been spinning that he claims is just legitimate Public Policy at this point. I think the relationship between those are all ones that dont really stand up very well just from a credibility stand point. Joyce, doing the legal analysis in response to the great points maya makes remind us all that its 2019 and ill point out the legal differences between president zelensky and Stormy Daniels and the differences are that miss daniels matter was essentially a private civil matter about an nda whether it was done well or not or fair or not, it was about one person in a private, civil matter. Mr. Zelensky was about the Foreign Policy, appropriated funds of United States congress, the use of javelin missiles and 400 million of military funding and the state department. The big difference beyond the obvious would be, joyce, that whatever side deal trump and Michael Cohen had that came down to a few tapes and their debates pales in compare soon to tison number of people in the loop. Rudy giuliani appears to have evidence that he was the point person and pompeo did know about it. How much does the stacking of that evidence make the claim super interesting about where his head is at but not super credible with regard to the case against him . I have to confess the comparison between president zelensky and Stormy Daniels wasnt where i thought you were going when you started out but its the appropriate one. Both because of the amount of evidence and the quality of the evidence. The situation thats involved. Maya is right when she talks about the timeline and says its hard for trump to distance himself from Rudy Giuliani because of the way events shake out on the timeline. You and i had this conversation i think almost a month ago where we talked about how inevitable it was that trump would throw Rudy Giuliani under the bus. My surprise is how long it seems to have taken. Theres a lot of witnesses who are in the loop on this. This isnt just a side nda that only a couple of people knew about. Now increasingly as documents begin to be released. The Trump Administration has resisted releasing documentary evidence but american oversight, a public Oversight Group was able to obtain some documents by court order from the state department and those documents reveal very interesting fact which is that the original hook up between Rudy Giuliani and secretary pompeo was assisted by the white house. It was President Trumps personal assistant who made sure that Rudy Giuliani had goodompe. These little pieces of evidence will come to light. When taken together they will mean trump wont be able to escape liability this time. Theres so much here. Im so glad we have all of you. Let me ask joyce and maya to stay with us. Glen, thank you as wulalways. Coming up, we have new parts we havent been able to play and im told we just got the tape. Youll hear Donald Trumps new back check and well fact check the parts that dont add up. I have our special report on prosecutor bribery. Thats tonight. Well break down a case that sent a governor to jail for over a decade. Im excited about what we have coming up. Stay with us. Youre watching the beat on msnbc. Well inform them that Liberty Mutual customizes home insurance, so theyll only pay for what they need. Your turn to keep watch, limu. Wake me up if you see anything. [ snoring ] [ loud squawking and siren blaring ] only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. cause no matter how far away for you roam. Ys. When you pine for the sunshine of a friendly gaze. For the holidays you cant beat home sweet home. The United StatesPostal Service goes the extra mile to bring your holidays home. I am totally blind. And non24 can throw my days and nights out of sync, keeping me from the things i love to do. Talk to your doctor, and call 8442142424. Breaking news President Trump distancing himself from Rudy Giuliani like never before. We just got this into our news room and now youll hear it airing for the first time. A short clip of the president in a radio interview with bill oreilly discussing just exactly what Rudy Giuliani was doing for him in ukraine. Take a listen. What was Rudy Giuliani doing in ukraine on your behalf . Well you have to ask that to rudy. I dont know. I know he was going to go to ukraine and i think he cancelled a trip but rudy has other clients other than me. You didnt direct him to go there on your behalf . No. You didnt direct him to go there . What does it mean when a president chucks a lawyer like this over the board . Maya wiley when were back in 30 seconds, well get into it. In 0 seconds, well get into it back with me is maya wiley. Good to see you again. We touched on this earlier now. Every one has been able to hear the president s answer. It strikes me as going farther than ask rudy. The president saying effectively, he claims, Rudy Giuliani wasnt doing stuff for him. Quote, rudys been working there for years. For every one that says it doesnt seem like the facts matter or press this white house, i would observe and im eager to hear your response that the incriminating facts that have added up about what was going on on the president s behalf in ukraine have the president now saying not its perfe perfect, go away. Maybe its not perfect. I didnt ask him to do it. I think youre right. Hes under a lot of heat right now both between losing the mcgahn subpoena case and also at the same time knowing the articles of impeachment process has moved forward with house judiciary and as we saw in the hearings in the house Intel Committee it was not really an assertion of my meaningful defense. It doesnt mean he wont have one to argue but all we heard were snippets like this was about National Policy except we heard lots of facts including from the experts on National Security that this was against our National Interests and long standing u. S. Policy. Then he says its because i was concerned about corruption but theres all this evidence that comes through he wasnt raising any red flags about corruption including in the april summary call we got. Rudy giuliani beginning in he has had clients since 2013 from reporting so its not that donald trump is making that up but at the same time, as early as 2017, Rudy Giuliani designated remember as Donald TrumpsCyber Security adviser is meeting in ukraine after Robert Mueller gets appointed in may. In june Rudy Giuliani is meeting with the ukrainian president and the National Prosecutor and within a few weeks of that meeting donald trump is tweeting out or stating i cant remember if it was fox news or a tweet that these conspiracy theories need to get looked into it. We can just roll it on forward. It keeps happening. You put your finger on the other point which is donald trump may lie about a lot of this but still say some things that are true that Rudy Giuliani may have other big clients out there. Like Paul Manafort he may have access to the Trump Presidency and also have a lot of other foreign interests, some of which may be unsavory. Doesnt that hurt Rudy Giuliani if the president is confirming his view there may have been double dealing . Absolutely. We know or at least weve heard reporting theres series of indictments that the sdny is looking at which includes not registering as representing a foreign agent, money laundering, wire fraud. Al