What is going on . We have a special guest on that, and its in our broadcast coming soon tonight. Also later tonight, oscar winning Filmmaker Michael Moore is here. Were going discuss the economy and a lot more. So stay with us for that. And later tonight, the mom of the georgia man shot and killed on video has been speaking out, as you may recall. Weve been covering this story. Tonight a former u. S. Attorney from that state joins me. As i told you, we are going to stay on that case. It is really striking. But given whats going on in the nation, we begin with breaking covid news. A valet who served President Trump meals and personally was around him as an assistant has tested positive for coronavirus. A source notes that the individuals who have been in this role have followed more of Donald Trumps approach than the cdc approach because many of these individuals, who are right around the president , who is in the elderly pool that is at risk, they dont wear masks. Theyre close to the president. And donald trump, according to reports is, quote, very upset. All of this is a reminder at the top levels of government, this is a virus that can continue to hit anywhere, any time, even when everyone involved knows what to be on guard for. Meanwhile, an exclusive new report is saying that 43 states will fully or partially reopen by this weekend. We are also learning that donald trump himself is rejecting other cdc guidance on how this reopening should be done. The ap with the report that trump basically shelved key guidelines that were supposed to be published as recently as last friday. Scientists told they would never see the light of day. The president worried that the message it sent wouldnt match up with what hes saying, including his desire to push an economic reopening. Meanwhile, what you see here is the president meeting with the governor of texas who had just recently admitted this week that reopening will lead to more infections and thus raise the risk of these deaths. With the news that donald trump himself is close to an individual who has tested positive, there is a question here about whether this meeting should even have been held. How is it possible that someone that tested positive for covid19 got so close to you . Ive had very little contact, personal contact with this gentleman. Know who he is. A good person, but ive had very little contact. Mike has had very little contact with him. But mike was tested, and i was tested. We were both tested. Thats the president s response. Obviously, any indication that there is a higher risk inside the white house raises all sorts of governmental concerns. We have a Public Health crisis. If the question is the government keeping itself safe and of course the larger policy its making, and then something everyone already knows about, but that we continue to get new information about, this economic toll. The hardship so many people are living through right now every single day. Here is the latest numbers. 33. 5 Million People now unemployed. If youre counting, thats one in five people who are in the u. S. Job market. Were joined now by the director of the center for infectious disease, research and policy from the university of minnesota, Michael Osterholm, and former labor secretary robert reich. He is the author of the system who rigged it, how to fix it, and Michelle Goldberg from the New York Times. Thanks to all of you for being here. Thank you. There is a ton going on. I want to begin with you, mr. Osterholm. When we see all of this information coming at us, and we see that the reopenings continue into this weekend, do you view this as manageable risk or are some places and states acting too quickly . Well, first of all, we have to just put this in perspective. We only have 5 to 15 of the u. S. Population has been infected by this virus, and it wont stop transmitting until we get to 60 to 70 . So whatever happens in the next few weeks obviously is going to contribute to that. And yeah, we do believe that with transmission occurring as widely as it is in a number of the states, were going see an uptick in cases and deaths that will occur likely within three to four weeks after the reopenings. How does that compare to the countries that have handled this best . This is a rare case where there is a lot of apples to apples in the sense that other nations are dealing with this. What insights can be gleaned there, in your view . First of all, we have to be very careful when we say how the other countries have handled this. Were only in the second inning of a nineinning game. Weve seen countries like singapore that received a great deal of praise and credit for what they did only they had a place they hadnt thought to look for in their Migrant Workers and had to declare a National State of emergency. The same thing happened in japan. On the other hand we have other countries like new zealand that may be able to accomplish a great deal of control because of the island status. China acquired its largely controlled status through some of the most draconian measures that weve ever seen with population movement. So i think at this point, we know we have lots of virus in this country. We know its in many places. And we know its going to continue to be transmitted. We just have to figure out how were going get from 5 to 15 to 60 to 70 infected. I cant tell from your answer, though, do you think states are opening prematurely or not . Well, at some point we have to reopen. And the question is how and when do we reopen. We had a set of standards that i thought most everyone had agreed to in terms of lowering of case numbers, the fact that hospitals had adequate equipment to protect their health care workers. It doesnt seem that were abiding by that anymore. So, yeah, i think in that regard, its going to be a problem. I asked the same question if we see a suddenly major uptick in cases do, we have criteria to bring these measures back . We have no on ramp or offramp right now for this. Thats part of the challenge, and thats why the public is so confused, and frankly, angry. They want more detail about why are we doing what were doing, and we owe the public that, and were not giving it to them. To your point, at this juncture, even the baseline standards that were put out by the Trump Administration itself, like having a falling case rate before you reopen, those arent being followed by a lot of the states. Michelle goldberg, im curious of your view on all of the above, and i also want to play for you and all our viewers the fallout of an exchange between the president and a nurse. Take a look. Ppe has been sporadic, but its been manageable. Sporadic for you, but not sporadic for a lot of other people. Were you surprised when he contradicted you there in the oval office in front of all those cameras . Um, you know, i actually didnt give it much thought. I was grateful to be there. I think that he understands that there are some areas that dont have ppe. Michelle, the nicest thing i can say is nurses deal with all kinds of crap. So she may want to put the best face on the situation and go back to the hard work she is doing. But that exchange go ahead. These nurses were specifically selected to be there. This isnt a random sampling of nurses and how theyre faring. And even the people specifically selected to be there are saying that theyre having more problems than the president wants to admit to. Look, what weve seen is a calamitous breakdown breakdown is not even the right word. Just a calamitous absence of any president ial leadership. The president has decided that this is too hard. It requires too much attention, you know, its kind of too unpleasant. So there is no plan to introduce any sort of comprehensive testing and tracing program before we would reopen. Theyre just basically saying youre on your own, and eventually were going get to herd immunity. And if a few 100,000 people die in the process, thats the cost of fixing the economy before november. And so then you have all of these states on their own. You have very responsible leadership in certain states, but how do you control a pandemic state by state when its not like we have border checks. So you have numbers finally going down in new york because people have made tremendous sacrifices and its being completely undone by the irresponsible approach in other parts of the country. Professor reich . Well, i completely agree with that, but more to the point, we are seeing in the United States an increase in deaths. The rates of deaths of coronavirus continue to rise. No other country has loosened its social distancing rules and its sort of lockdown rules in the face of rising rates of deaths from the coronavirus. So we are an outlier in so many ways, and the real tragedy here is that it looks awfully like donald trump wants to reopen america for entirely political purposes, to get the economy rolling by election day when the great irony is actually, if the economy is opened too early, and there is more of a pandemic and the rate of infections and deaths continues to rise, that is going to make it harder for the economy to get back on track. Well, professor, to build on your point, as you say, he may be playing himself, because it may not be gaming out that even narrow strategy basically correctly, as you say. On the more substantive health point you make, i want you to build on your point. Well put on the screen this very important measurement the New York Times has collected this where you see new york where the cases are finally falling. That was the epicenter on the left. Much of the rest of the United States, professor, walk us through what this means to the point youre making where the cases are still rising. Well, the cases are rising, and also, the deaths are rising. And the United States actually is unique in the sense that we are not only facing rising deaths and rising cases, but we are also beginning to reopen the country in the face of this. Now what does that mean . Well, it can only mean one thing. That can only mean that the rate of infections and the rate of deaths will increase even further, because as michelle was saying, all of the sacrifices that were made in new york and places that had been the epicenter, basically become worthless because other places in this country are not taking those measures, and they are now facing the great wave of this terrible coronavirus heading in their direction. Mr. Osterholm, i also wanted to get your insights. I bring some of the toughest questions to you, given your expertise. Here is another one. Statistics from new york which show a very High Percentage here, 66 , they estimate of hospitalizations are from people who were sheltering at home. Can you explain that to us . Yeah. Well, first of all, we only have partial data there. What i mean is just because you are sheltering at home doesnt mean you didnt have contact with people who are outside the home besides you. So this is one of the measures i think we have to really look at carefully and how we educate the public. If you have contact in a crowded Apartment Building with others who are going out, you really are not protecting yourself. So we need those data. And our additional review suggests thats what happen. They really did have contact. It just wasnt they hadnt left their apartment to have that contact. And professor reich, i also want to play for you some of what were hearing from people who are hit by this. Obviously all these people out of work as i mentioned with the numbers, just tragic, and also Small Business owners struggling. Take a look. To rush through and throw the chips up in the air and see where they land is not real a a realistic policy or safe one. Im not going to be able to eat if its four or five weeks. I had to make the decision im going the open my business. Anything that has to be done in the store, we pull right now from our own personal savings to make sure we keep things going. And were just going to manage it however we have to. Professor . I think it needs to be restated that this is the richest country in the world. The United States is the richest country in the history of the world. The idea that we have to subject so many of our workers to the diabolical choice between either working and putting food on their table and keeping a roof over their heads or subbing themselves and their families to the risk of this virus and possible death is absurd. We should not be forcing people to make that choice. Michelle . I mean, i think force is the important word here, right . There are certain people who talk about this in terms of liberation. But if your Company Opens and youre ordered back to work and you can no longer get Unemployment Insurance because technically you have a job and the company is open, thats not liberation, right . What we are doing is were kind of waging this experiment. But its not being done on the backs of people like me, people like any of us on this program who probably all have the luxury of being able to do most of our work at home, right . We can pick and choose our exposure. We can pick and choose whether we want to continue to really be locked down or whether we want to go to some of these businesses that are opening if were in one of those states. But a lot of people dont have that luxury. And, again, this isnt happening in many other countries. Other countries have found ways to provide for people, to keep people employed, to keep paying their salaries without forcing them to make this incredibly dangerous decision. Well, i think you both make such an important point there. And it speaks to the orwellian aspect of this when we hear rhetoric about liberating people and what the Economic Activity going on is actually a kind of coercion under incredible duress against a backdrop of insufficient Government Support for what is a basic question of whether people have health care and have other means to get through a pandemic that wasnt their own doing. All of that a deep moral question, really, for what we want to be as a country. My thanks to michelle and robert on that, and Michael Osterholm for your medical expertise, as always. Were going fit in a break. We have a lot coming up in the show. The Justice Department is trying to distinguish a case against Michael Flynn even though he publicly plead guilty in public. Later tonight, a shooting that continues to stun the nation. Were hearing from the mother of the georgia man killed unarmed while jogging in broad daylight. No arrests, no charges yet. Also, my live interview tonight with michael moore. A man who knows his way around the economy and corporations, and what does capitalism mean, something we were just touching on, during a crisis. Im ari melber. Youre watching the beat on msnbc. Things can get a bit cloudy for you. But now, theres the Dell Technologies cloud, powered by vmware. A single hub for a consistent operating experience across all your clouds. That should clear things up. Ill start. Oh, do you want to go first . No, no i dont. You go. I was just going to say on slide 7, talking about bundling and saving. Umm. Jamie, youre cutting out. Sorry im late hey, whoevers doing that, can you go on mute . Oh, my bad i was just saying theres a typo on slide 7. Bundle home auto for big discosnouts. I think thats supposed to say discounts. You sure about that . Hey, can you guys see me . Little things. Can become your big moment. Thats why theres otezla. Otezla is not a cream. Its a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. With otezla, 75 clearer skin is achievable. Dont use if youre allergic to otezla. It may cause severe diarrhea, nausea or vomiting. Otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. Tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. Some people taking otezla reported weight loss. Your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. Upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. Tell your doctor about your medicines, and if youre pregnant or planning to be. Otezla. Show more of you. While most of the world is being asked to stay inside, there are people out there giving it their all. So, to everyone who is helping keep us safe against covid19 day in and day out, all of us at amgen say. Thank you. Were all living through a deadly pandemic, and much, if not virtually all of the news on some nights is about that story and related developments. Our next story which is very high in our broadcast because its a huge story has nothing to do with covid, but its something you need to know about, and it may involve your government, the Trump Administration using this time period to do something that it doesnt want everyone to scrutinize. The Justice Department is now formally pushing in court to try to extinguish, remove and erase the entire prosecution of Michael Flynn. You may recall this was a key part of the Mueller Probe. A u. S. Attorney here serving in the Trump Administration now says all of the sudden the entire prosecution, the entire case should be dropped against trumps former National Security adviser. But as you may recall, that is a very odd thing to do right now because that former security adviser Michael Flynn already plead guilty in court under oath to the crime of lying to the fbi and then tried to cooperate at one point in time later. After all this heat, after mueller has effectively left the stage, now later, mr. Flynn had said maybe he wans to withdraw his guilty plea and see how that could work out. Well, the Justice Department, while acknowledging that flynn plead guilty is now breaking news arguing he did so without full awareness of the very circumstances, and thsay assert that the government doesnt believe it, the trump Justice Department