Transcripts For MSNBCW The Beat With Ari Melber 20200929 : v

MSNBCW The Beat With Ari Melber September 29, 2020

Paying taxes largely empire reported losing more money than it made. His opponents now voluntarily sharing their own tax returns, which show both biden and harris paying what they owed under law, just over 30 . Tonight, joe biden can unload that ammunition on trump using a debate stage promising the largest audience of the year to present voters, almost a million who have already voted with his view of who donald trump really is. That is a challenge even with a good hand because donald trump, whether people like it or not, has proven to be a wildly dom nearing and at times effective debater. He often defined the topics and tempo in that first debate with Hillary Clinton, which drew a record 84 Million Viewers. His mix of sweeping claims and, yes, brash lies. Then the personal attacks have thrown off politicians with decades of experience in both parties. And let me be clear, as we kick off tonights coverage. This constant lying donald trump is known for, it invariably upends the very format of a debate because it taunts the opponent and the moderator in deciding whether to spend precious time Fact Checking him and his chosen topics or leaving, as the alternative, a blizzard of trump falsehoods unanswered. Top democrats, you may recall, even talked about why biden might be better off skipping tonights debate, echoing an expert on rhetoric none other than sean carter who said a wise man told me dont argue with fools because people from a distance cant tell who is who. Look, arguing with a lying fool can be harder than it looks. Mr. Carter was, of course, invoking more ancient lines from proverbs itself. It offers debate tips relevant to tonight. From proverbs, do not answer a fool to his followy or you will be like him. Answer a fool as his fohly deserves, that he not be wise in his own eyes. The world changes, but they say human nature doesnt. This is probably a big test for biden tonight. Can he prevail where other candidates faltered . Can joe biden avoid answering trumps follies, reacting to trumps gimmicks and lies and instead shred donald trump in ways that expose him before, yes, the eyes of his own voters. A man who claims to be a big chief executive who cant execute a plan to protect americans from covid, a man who claims to be rich but cant afford the kind of tax bills most americans pay, a man who claims to have most ratings in popularity but has never cracked 50 in votes or polling. As sean carter says in that same battle rap, we dont believe you. You need more people. Thats one point joe biden may want to explore tonight dealing with all of these challenges. Now an msnbc contributor and worked for both obama campaigns. Vice president for communication at cap and libby casey from the washington post. Good to see all of you. Cornell, having worked inside recent president ial campaigns, i deal with you and this problem. Its one thing to judge and morally condemn a candidate, a president who lies so much, but its another thing to get in the ring and decide when do you rebut the lie . You cant leave it unanswered but when do you say wait a minute, you have your time to use for your own topics. It is getting caught up in the trump whirlwind. Part of that is issue is i talked to voters who were on the fence going into 2016 and, as you know, ari, a lot of obama voters voted third party and said time and time again, we get that trump is bad in all the debates and all the conversations about trump. I want to know what hillary is going to do for us. I think its easy to get caught up in attacking trump, because its a targetrich environment. Theres so many lies, so many falsehoods out there. I think that would be a mistake on the part of the Vice President. I think he may have 90 Million Viewers tonight and its his opportunity for the Vice President to speak to those 90 Million Viewers exactly what he plans to do to change the direction of this country, to tackle covid and to fix our economy and not spend as much time on donald trump, because Donald Trumps numbers are already in the trash can. Donald trump needs to be the one who changes the dynamic, because hes the one who is behind. Libby, this is not a debate thats moderated, say, by the Associated Press or the washington post, your outlet, respected outlet or the New York Times. This is a fox news moderator. And what everyone thinks of Chris Wallace, fox news in general, i think it is accurate to say has been more on directly Donald Trumps side, has echoed things he said even when not true. For example, on covid. So that is also something that both candidates will have to deal with even though, to give full sort of awareness, donald trump has had his own clashes with mr. Wallace as well. With that context, i want to play a little bit of how Chris Wallace says he approaches tonight. Take a look. One of these two people is going to be the next president of the United States, and my job is to be as invisible as possible. Im trying to get them to engage, to focus on the key issues, to give people at home a sense of i want to vote for one versus the other. But if im done my job right at the end of the night, people will say that was a great debate. Who was the moderator . And, libby, thats fine, and yet in todays era, and particularly donald trump, you can also factor in him trying to make the moderator an issue. Im curious of what you think of all of the above. Chris wallace, certainly we understand the idea that the moderator is not the main story. You dont want people to walk away because youre stealing the show, taking all the oxygen out of the room. Fact checking is a role that journalists can bring to the table. Chris wallace said thats not his job. Hes leaving that to the candidates. Does joe biden spend his time trying to Fact Check Trump and what democratic strategists are saying is that you can do that to some degree but then you need to pivot back to the message youre trying to hit. If you can use a fact check to hit home a message and bring it back to the topic you want, then youre going somewhere. You bring up the great question of the role of the moderate and sort of bias. Chris wallace tries to take a different tone than sort of the entertainment, the infotainment part of fox news and has held President Trump accountable in the past, which has frustrated him in the past, maybe expecting a softer interview coming from someone from fox. False information about joe biden has been allowed to go unchecked on his show, mental acuity or how he might behave tonight. Chris wallace wants to take this lane of being sober, being serious and being focused. I wornder if he can resist doin Fact Checking. There may be moments where he says this is not he may call one of the candidates out on some issues, but, you know, it puts all journalists in a tough position when the idea of Fact Checking is taken off the table. I appreciate you said that Chris Wallace is sort of the sober one over there, but daniella, thats a little bit like claiming youre the most sober person in margaritaville. You may develop be. The washington post, it is a striking evolution. Roger ailes may have passed but he would be doing a dance today when you think about building Something Like fox news and getting it to this degree where its not only in the debates, its the first one. Daniella, a lot of viewers will just say take that as the kind of default middle ground. And i think mr. Wallace, again, its not anything personal. Its just about where he has fit in historically and where fox news fits in. Having said that, everyone here has weighed in a bunch, the biden side, the challenge, the media. You can pick from all the above. Yeah. I feel like if donald trump says hes going to lie a lot tonight but if there are some really egregious thing, i think it will harm Chris Wallaces reputation if he just lets it go, because we all are privy to the facts and we all have been hearing what donald trump is saying. I would be curious to see if he doesnt actually step in and fact check donald trump. Look, biden, i think, is in a slightly tough position because, like i said, trump will lie the entire night. He really needs to use this opportunity to talk to the American People and explain to them why their lives will be better under a Biden Administration and, you know, one of the first things you learn in Media Training is the art of the pivot, as you say. If donald trump lies about something, say thats a lie, this is why and quickly move off of it and talk about what you want to do for people. Thats whats most important right now. We all know most people know what donald trump has done the last four years. We know that hes incapable of leading. Now its time for Vice President biden to tell us what is america going to look like under your administration . Thats what we want to hear tonight. Yeah. And you have a lot of experience in this as well. These are big nights in politics. Before i was fulltime in journalism i worked for two u. S. Senators. When youre prepping for certain appearances you do talk about can you put something in a frame that doesnt cost you a lot of your precious time . Look, hes a deadbeat liar. So, again, hes saying what deadbeat liars say and let me tell you the facts and then you can repeat that frame for 90 minutes and the next point, they remember something about trump, dead beat liar and hopefully remember something about your plan. Trump is very good at hitting back at that. In a world where he is rightly criticized for shortcomings, cornell, it may be easy to forget, wait, theres a reason he beat a lot of republicans. Take the red blue thing out of it. A lot of people on those stags,s did pretty well, including the republican primary vote. I want to ask you specifically, cornell, about that and numbers as a pollster. Numbers cut different ways depending on your mood. Weve had jokes with you and others about how can there be undecided people. And yet i think you would agree if you can move 10 of people in this race tonight or in the coming days, whifr candidate can move 10 could win, right . Yes. Thats a lot of people. I want to put up for your analysis here, look at this. We have 86 of people saying their minds are made up about who they will vote for. 14 said theyre persuadable tonight. Half empty or full, you could say, okay most people made up their mind or you could say wow, if one in ten people who are undecided make up their mind tonight this thing could swing tonight. Not only in the National Picture but you move 4 one way or another in pennsylvania, michigan or certainly florida and its a different race. So the debate tonight is important. Although at the same time, im torn, ari. We say these debates are so important but at the same time, historically, are they that important . I worked for a man named barack obama, who you all panned in every debate he did, particularly in the debate with Hillary Clinton and you panned him in the first debate against mitt romney. In the end, Ronald Reagan was panned for his performance and won by a landslide. I think what matters the most is really the likability. If youre the frontrunner, you have to come out of this thing unscathed. You have to make sure you do no harm. But it all falls back on this. This was a problem with al gore and his debates. I love al gore but this was a problem with al gore in his debates. He knew all the answers, but he wasnt the most likable person on stage. To a certain extent when you look at what biden has to do tonight look, if he says something outrageous, i think you have to check him on it, but i swear to you, ari, i would not spend most of my time in a back and forth with that foolishness. I would be talking to the American People. Right. Make myself more relatable. Right. Try to come across as relatable, likable and strong. Just under a minute left here. I go daniella and then libby. I totally agree with that. What this country is missing is a leader, but also a leader who shows empathy, a leader who shows that they understand what the American People are going through. And that is something that Vice President biden has in leaps and bounds. So when hes telling the American People what hes going to do for them, showing them his empathy, i think, will go a long way and only hit trump if hes being ridiculously outrageous and egregious, but spend your time telling the American People how youre going to lead. Can he put donald trump in a box and talk directly to the American People about what he wants to do . Donald trump is the one who has to make up ground tonight, having that bombshell tax report coming out on the eve of this is not helping donald trump. He has to be the one to claw back some momentum. Joe biden needs to maintain and also present that, may i say, president ial, president ial manner to the american public. President ial manner. Boy, thats a term that could be widely debated these days. Libby casey, daniella, and cornell belcher, thanks to both of you. Our shortest break, 30 seconds, we have chairman schiff. Turn of events on the Breonna Taylor case later this hour and tax returns of President Trump including the apprentice. When we return in just 30 seconds. Rentice. When we returnn ijust 30 seconds. We live in uncertain times. However, there is one thing you can be certain of. The men and woman of the United States postal service. We are here to deliver your cards, packages and prescriptions. And also deliver the peace of mind knowing that whats important to youlike your ballotis on its way. Every day, all across america, we deliver for you. And we always will. Welcome back. Continuing a theme from our first segment, eyeing this debate tonight, donald trump has been hiding and lying about his taxes for decades. Its especially rough timing for him to find them exposed as he heads into this debate tonight. The New York Times, of course, breaking this story this weekend with the most exhaustive accounting trump has ever faced. Now the paper is out with more, showing trumps claims as bouncing back when he launched the apprentice were a total hoax. He lost 90 million in his core businesses. He did feel pressed to acknowledge it. While he kept hiding the 90 million in losses, the debts behind him and the company was stronger than ever. I was seriously in trouble. I was billions of dollars in debt. I used my brain. I used my negotiating skills, and i worked it all out. Now my company is bigger than it ever was, and stronger than it ever was, and im having more fun than ive ever had. New reporting showing there was nothing fun about trumps desperate clashes with creditors nor his ongoing efforts now to outrun loans that come due in the several years ahead of us, all issues that are on the table at tonights debate. Im joined by art of the deal coauthor tony schwartz. Dealing with the devil my mother, trump and me. Good evening, sir. Good evening to you, sir. The issue of media bias came up earlier in the broadcast. We are biassed somewhat towards you as a guest. With that possible bias, you are specifically situated to what were going to hear tonight. You sat with donald trump and crafted arguments and words together. Whats it important for viewers and citizens to think about as they listen to both candidates tonight . Well, first of all, when trump starts to repeat words, you know, enemy of the people, hoax, phrases that he has used over and over again, its designed to spellbind. Its designed to overwhelm you with the repetition and so one of the things i would say to biden is dont be afraid to repeat yourself. Dont be afraid to say a phrase, as one of your last guests said, over and over again, particularly if its something if its about something that you are capable of doing that hes not. That would be, to me, a critical way for biden to start. When you were around him, did you see the same skills, panache or brazen lies, all of it or part of it, that would later be on display in these past debates . You could make the argument, not on morality or truth, but on east efficacy, that donald trump hasnt really lost any debate. No. When i attended all three debates when i was, honestly, advising the Hillary Campaign on what was likely to get under trumps skin. Interestingly, everything that i remember advising not everything, but much of it, she did, and it did get under his skin, and it didnt matter. Now, tony so, it is tony . Im listening. Are you taking credit for Hillary Clintons Electoral College loss . Is that what youre doing . Well, ive taken they followed your playbook. Ive taken so much blame and willingly taken so much blame for the impact that ive had on trump that if i had a little positive impact on hillary, that would be offsetting. But go ahead. Well, i just think that he should, indeed, you know, be talking about the things that he will do. I believe that this idea of biden simply being biden. He doesnt have to be anything else, because if its true that the frontrunner, if its true im sorry, not the frontrunner, but the president has to come off more likable, thats very, very tough for trump against a guy who actually has empathy, who actually has a conscience, who does care. So i think, you know, just reciting the facts simply and plainly, and when trump comes at him, why did you call american soldiers who died in war losers and suckers . Why do you allow people to come to rallies without Wearing Masks . Why did you put your Supreme Court nominee and her whole family at risk for coronavirus by not ha

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