Rachel Maddow takes a look at the days top political news stories. Whether a person is too close to the subject of the probe, whether Jeff Sessions would beak be more of a Trump Campaign surrogate who happened to be Attorney General rather than acting as an independent Law Enforcement officer. If sessions didnt recuse after that statement, it would have made him look even more like he was doing trumps bidding. And trump apparently didnt know that making that statement would also as just a general matter of embarrassment, make him look weak and out of the loop about a decision that was already done. Because there were reports that show the Internal Doj Process had already resulted in sessions accepting that nonpartisan Recusal Recommendation from the career staff earlier that week and that Jeff Sessions was already working with doj officials op writing the very rationale they would soon release to the public. In fact, it was barely an hour after trump put that public pressure on sessions to stay in charge of the probe to not recuse that Jeff Sessions stepped out to the world with a
fateful announcement that would actually change the arc of this entire probe. It would enrage trump, it would make Rod Rosenstein a new Household Name in every household that follows the news these days. And then what happened next is at issue and its in the news tonight. Donald trump responding with a mix of call it personal rage and a kind of management impotence by which i mean that he freaked out enough that a lot of people heard about it but did not follow through to actually do the firing of Jeff Sessions that he initially demanded in his initial freakout. So there were credible sources able to tell both the New York Times and the Washington Post that trump was fuming about Firing Sessions that he told his aides he wanted it done. Of course, we know he did not get it done. And thats not all. Donald trump was apparently unaware completely unaware of a pretty key rule in legal recusals. Im talking, of course, about no backies. The doj doesnt recommend a legal recusal for say some factual reason and then just take it back. Thats what the trump was demanding. He told sessions to take back the recusal from the russia probe in our time line, this was a few days later, march 4th and sessions goes down to maralago where the president objected to his decision to recuse himself. Mr. Trump it the times reported who had told aides he need Aid Loyalist Overseeing The Inquiry Berated Sessions and told him to reverse his decision, an inappropriate request. Sessions refused. Confrontation being investigated by bob mueller as are the president s private and public attacks on sessions and the efforts to get him to resign. So lets take this all together. There are many people im sure you know many people who say this. That donald trump is somehow ignorant or clueless hors doeuvre. You hear that from time to time. And donald trump may certainly be ignorant of all kinds of things, certainly the things he
doesnt care about. But the evidence in this mounting case shows that he is very informed and very canny about using a whole range of tactics to get what he wants in there criminal probe. Now, here is how that is key to where this probe is heading. Donald trump deploys both public and private means to do these things that look like Evidence Of Obstruction of justice and thats key to what is the disturbing news tonight. So lets go back into the timeline. Donald Trump Presses sessions and ha became part of muellers probe itself because had he an interest which demonstrates sessions overlooked role as a key witness into the investigation into whether trump tried to obstruct the inquiry. Muellers investigators pressed current and former white house officials about trumps treatment of sessions and whether they believe the president was trying to impede the investigation by pressuring him. The Attorney General beintervied
at length. Of the questions mueller wants to ask trump, eight reit to sessions among them what efforts did you make him to try to get him to reverse his recusal thats the context for what trump did today. While we dont usually treat trumps tweets as news stories because theyre often ploys and some are just lies there one is important. This is a terrible situation and Attorney GeneralJeff Sessions should stop this rigged witch hunt right now before it continues to stain our country any further. Muellers totally conflicted. His 17 angry democrats that are doing his dirty work are a disgrace to the usa. What are we looking at there . Were seeing the public part. What else is trump doing to shut down the probe in private tonight . Thats a big question. You can also see how this is Evidence Of Obstruction that concerns even trumps own lawyers because their argument
today was hey, no, trump did not say what he said, that his call to stop the probe was not really a call to stop the probe, not an order. Muellers investigators may disagree with that. They are probing how the president talks to and pressures the doj. One democrat a former prosecutor, spoke to how this all fits into criminal intent. Clearly there statement is serious and substantial evidence of criminal intent. Even if it doesnt constitute a crime itself. The president is coming close to actual committing the crime of Obstruction Of Justice if not crossing that line already. And these tweets adding to each other amount to evidence of criminal intent. There is now right now a clearly credible case of obstruction of
justice against the president of the United States. So why is this happening now . Well, theres a new report that suggests its not just the Manafort Trial which shows what happens to the defendants who Dont Cooperate With Mueller but also that trump learned within the last day the Special Counsel will limit the scope of questioning and would like to ask questions both orally and written for the president to respond to. In other words, there is still serious pressure for an interview. According to news sources familiar with the president s actions wednesday, that was the genesis for his Early Morning tweet storm. Rachel pinpointed a lot of important issues today require to us focus on what people do. Not just what they say. The question that could determine the future of the Trump Presidency tonight involves whether trump is trying to do something with what hes saying to his Attorney General and to the other doj and fbi officials that hes well hes attacked, berated, undercut and, of course, who hes tried to remove from office. Remember, this is the still the only american presidency to ever
successfully seek the removal of the top two officials at the fbi. Theyre now both potential witnesses to obstruction. Its the only presidency inivity under investigation for the unsuccessful efforts to remove both an Attorney General and a Special Prosecutor himself as the probe remains open. And that, of course, is just what we know based on whats in public and what is leaked. So one more thing as you take it all together. There is another reason why donald trump may be writing things about sessions that look selfincriminating 0 twitter that have his own lawyers saying they werent what they are. This theory requires to you entertain the belief that the president is more canny than clueless. Donald trumps team has good reason to have learned by now that muellers case uses Donald Trumps past efforts to squeeze and oust Jeff Sessions. Muellers case may have already strong evidence of that. Provable evidence. And so knowing that it looks
moved that far but he certainly made the effort to appear he was reducing some of the questions. Do you have any hints over whether he is prepared to go to the Supreme Court if trump wont sit down and how do you trigger that . When do you do that . So if one signal we know very clearly that mueller has given the Trump Legal Team is he would like to avoid a subpoena fight. And there are all sorts of good reasons for that, ari, like he knows that that will take months. Theres very little chance that the court of appeals which would certainly be involved on the road to the Supreme Court would move with any alacrity. This could takes months to fight over an interview and a constitutional question thats never been answered, can you force the president to the table to talk about acts as president. And if theres one thing we
know, as well, mueller has gathered a lot of evidence. Hes interviewed a ton of people. Hes pressaged in his questions that hes hinted at to the Trump Legal Team what hes interested in. And obstruction is a central piece of what he wants to get from the president. You say obstruction and that brings us to the most damning and perhaps the most obvious question that im sure many of us watching would like your view on. Why do you think donald trump wrote something today on the internet that was so blatantly selfincriminating about Potential Obstruction of this case which is an investigation into his obstruction . So two things. I agree with all the prosecutors that ive spent a lot of time with as a reporter in federal courts all over. I agree with them that any statement you make that suggests that youre threatening or intimidating or encouraging a
certain course of action is not a crime but certainly goes to your State Of Mind. And could be part of a mosaicing that any prosecutor could lay out orging look, the president was really sig that willing to Tens Of Millionses of people this is what he wanted. And that is not a crime but it builds the color around the State Of Mind of the actor, the president. The second thing is your question about why did he tweet. The president has shown a talent for sending a message early in the morning either about his anger or about the topic he wants all of us to be talking about. And in this instance, i believe hes been watching a lot of coverage of Paul Manaforts trial. Obviously, were mot live inside that trial but hes watching the cable news, minute by minute updates. And he wants to send a signal about how he feels this is wrong. And it could be just a signal to his base. And nothing more. Well, you said it was a mosaic of sorts. I wonder whether its a selfportrait titled Evidence Of Obstruction, given how drastically blatant it was. Carol, we always appreciating your reporting and nuance. Thank you so much. I turn to senator chris coons on the Senate Judiciary committee and rebutting giulianis assertion that have collusion is not a crime. He re he i want to start with your view of whether what donald trump wrote on the internet today is evidence of Potential Obstruction. Well, its certainly evidence of his State Of Mind how he views the ongoing Mueller Investigation and of what he thinks should happen. His saying this morning that Jeff Sessions should shut down the Mueller Investigation which he calls a rigged witch hunt as
a number of commentators have said so far this evening could be entered into evidence as something that suggests what his State Of Mind has been. Ill remind you this goes all the way back to his lester holt interview following his firing of fbi director james comey. Whether he said that he had the russia investigation in mind when he fired jim comey, the former fbi director. So i think theres abundant evidence that obstruction and intent to interfere the Ongoing Investigation into whether or not rush yar committed some conspiracy with Trump Campaign in order to violate our federal election laws. Thats something thats been out there in plain view now for months. Frankly, my answer as to why President Trump did in this morning is a combination of appealing to his base, delegitimizing the Mueller Investigation and he frankly partly just cant help himself. Right, because as weve reported his lawyers reaction shows that this was coming from the top and that they wanted to
say it didnt do what it did. Getting to your other piece, you know, sometimes it feels like were all going through a type of law School Together in this era. You would be one of our voluntary professors i suppose. Collusion, conspiracy, criminal hacking and theft, fraud fraud against the units, Foreign Campaign contributions are all felonies that relate to what has been alleged in 2016. Walk us through your point about what trims constitute collusion. Well, first the term collusion here is being used casually. What its really referring to ill remind you is a conspiracy to break federal election laws. The federal election law and i think it is title 52 of the u. S. Code, section 30121 says that it is a crime to solicit or accept a thing of value from a Foreign National in order to influence a federal election. Im summarizing what is a much
longer paragraph. But essentially, thats what it says is that a Foreign National cant contribute either money or a thing of value and an american cant solicit or receive a thing of value from a Foreign National in connection with a federal election. Thats really the crux of whats being investigated here is whether or not the russian well documented wide scale russian effort by dozens of military Intelligence Officers tore influence the American Election and to be offer hacked emails was in some way either solicited or accepted by the Trump Campaign team. Thats why i think the developments in recent days that Michael Cohen may well be willing to testify that President Trump knew about the June 9th Trump Tower meeting with russians offering dirt on Hillary Clinton could be a key Turning Point here. Theres lots of public evidence of an enthusiasm by the highest levels of the Trump Campaign to
accept information derogatory to Hillary Clinton and his campaign. Theres lots of evidence that Robert Muellers investigation has made public through indictments of russian efforts to influence the outcome of the campaign. Whats been missing so far is something that connects point a to point b and makes it into a conspiracy. That may well it be the evidence that Robert Mueller is preparing to present. Im remind you lying to federal investigators is also a federal offense and sometimes things that are said on twitter whether its by donald trump jr. Or Paul Manafort or others, what really ends up being the thing that hangs them up is having testified in front of a committee or to an fbi investigator one way and it being proven that the facts are the opposite. I think those are the three core issues here. Finally federal election law working in partnership to break the american laws which is conspiracy and lying to investigators most of the indictments that have so far come out from the mueller
investigation move along one of those three tracks. I expect well be seeing more indictments in in the near future. To paraphrase it, sounds like they were right to say collusion is not a crime because it is like four crimes. Thats right. What we are commonly referring to as collusion is a complex series of Violation Afsz federal election law, of truthfulness to investigators and the commonly known crime of conspiracy which is i think 18usc371. Thats just working with more than one other foreign break federal law. Thats simple conspiracy. Senator chris coons, a member of the Senate Judiciary committee, i really do appreciate your time tonight. Thank you, ari. Still ahead there could be a Big Development in Paul Manaforts trial. We have that former federal prosecutor who was in the courtroom today in just a moment. I love you, basement guest bathroom. Your privacy