Transcripts For RT CrossTalk 20230217 : vimarsana.com

changing narratives. i m joined by my guess, karen krakowski and mount jackson. she s retired united states air force, lieutenant colonel, having served both an essay and the office of secretary events in washington. we have on 3 months, the on of he is a writer as well as a military and political analysts, and at berlin we have the cathartic. i ll miss young. he is founder of seriana analysis or a cross accruals. and i think that means you can jump anytime you want, and i always appreciate, i m a, let me go to you. i me, i already mentioned it in the introduction. so tell me, i mean, i know english isn t your 1st language here, but maybe you have special powers that i don t, as long as it takes pertains to the amount of conflict that doesn t pertain to the amount of assistance is that, does that make any sense to you as a native speaker of english doesn t make any sense to me at all. go ahead. andre. yeah, it doesn t make any sense in a form in your point of view, from our strategic operational, all, rob, logistical for that matter. sure. it s basically a political statement designed for the internal consumption consumption in later in the united states. and yes, it has no descript far worse, whatsoever. and will all, are usually it goes where devoured the be especially when you look at the letters does not make sense. you know, karen if i got to you amount jackson, it s very interesting to me we, we went from as long as it takes nothing about ukraine without ukraine, ukraine. it becomes completely dependent economically and militarily on the united states. but ukraine has to decide its own terms and conditions and sit down with negotiations. i mean, you can go at this at any kind of trajectory you want it all, it s very, very confusing. now, reality in the ground is made it that way, but their, their policy adjustments don t keep up with reality, but it s the problem and the public is picking up on it as well. karen? yes, certainly. i think than that of information it around the world available about what s really happening in ukraine and also why why these things are happening. it s getting out there and they can t even keep it away from the limited interest in limited li, interested americans who aren t really that interested except that we have a terrible budget deficit. and americans are suffering economically and they see this money flowing into ukraine. so they re starting to ask and that information now is widely available to people that are interested. they had a very difficult time controlling the narrative here it said controlling the narrative of arc. and let me go to you in berlin. i mean i, we had the revelation from seymour hersh about the destruction of the north stream pipelines. what has been the reaction of the german political elite in the media? because apparently i didn t know this. so i heard this crazy old man. that s all he is. i thought he was one of the greatest living journalists of our time. what s the german response? the german official respond is that seymour hersh is a blogger, is not a journalist, is his not an investigative journalist, isn t blogger sitting behind his laptop and just striving some illusion? well, i m with him, so this isn t joseph morale. just the blogger, as well. i mean, we re all bloggers in david in the eyes and anything outside of the ocean, not at the hit in germany, is abashed, is a smeared, and he has been downgraded, and the media has a very strong influence over to public opinion in germany. and they re able to project is hija mani. intellectual had jim when you were to people, right. the only, in my opinion, 2 political parties in germany that spoke about the seymour hersh article is the left wing party, the linker, and the if theater i think parties arrest the for other political parties. and especially the triple tickled parties who formed the coalition. david dakota, the article of seymour hersh because there is a war of narratives, right? this is also informational work. so at the beginning, few 1st few weeks, 2 months, 3 months, probably one year. they can manipulate the people. but after one year it s very difficult for the really information not to be so faced and for the people to be educated about the and now you can see even germans, they re speaking very quietly with each other because they are afraid to speak publicly and loud. in their surrounding about these cases and whether or not germany should continuing its policy towards ukraine and to be embedded with the united states in disregard. so at the beginning it might be the vast majority of organ supportive up your brain, but the support is now diminishing because the people can carry also the burden economically on their shoulder. right? exactly. and what against the, their own self interest here, you know, and the, the biggest problem and all of this. and you and i have talked about this before, is the framing of this is good versus evil. when you have that kind of framing, it can make you feel good, particularly if it doesn t impact you. ok. just virtue signaling, but it is covered just told us here. now the impact is being felt. you know, the virtual signaling kind of fades away here. and when you do it, when you frame it is good versus evil, context doesn t matter. and geopolitical reality is no matter. and that s why this narrative is bumbling. it s been, it s been fumbling from the very, from the get go, go ahead. andre, are in the last a week or 2. we have a dramatic change in the wood, in narrative, across the mainstream media in united states, for example. and you can also note, is there this op form transfer as for example. and if there was a dramatic change and i would have wall street journal new york, i m sure meeting that yeah. garage. and despite the fact losing of 1000000 group survey, they still, you know, on offensive begin your ground thinking they re down sam villages. and it was like this which was believed, and it has a very rational explanation to it. yeah. are, you can all lie only for so long before they re out. it begins to say it is measured in the organ, the world when there is still, there are still many alternative sources of information and people who have their own a very good demand. very interesting job politics and every begin to, well, you know, are all these are, those are blogger school count, walk life cycle, and then they begin to last portions. let alone about professional school can point out immediately. he s scared in their mood of desperation, really at the ball in their bout way and i spoke about it. yes, there will begin their article. you have to take a look at their latest e. sure. all the so called our intellectual magazine such as the foreign affairs, which is there are all there. neil, we ve got on here and you ll get a bull article bar article there and you assume you re out there. how desperate and whatnot. i m showing today that the point is here, you re out. you re absolutely right. yeah. let me go to karen right now. i mean from the get go. this has been an elite project. ok. that s what it s all about. and i m glad that on that i brought up foreign affairs. this has nothing to do with ukraine. it s about american hegemony. it s about taking russia out 1st to focus their attention on china. that s always what it s always been. and oh, by the way, make sure germany and russia don t have any kind of economic relationship, because that that s what major germany prospers. it would make germany think twice about how it feels about ukraine and the united states. you. this is only an elite project that has been from that way since the start. karen, go ahead. that s actually true. and if you can see it that way, we can understand more about about how things have unfolded. but, you know, it occurs to me that you know the lensky, a former comedian, and he s been very public with all of his, you know, he is ukraine for 2 americans who know nothing about ukraine. zalinski is all that we know. and increasingly, he is becoming more of a comedian and i think americans are not really warming to him as much as he might think. and certainly not as much as congress is. i know the democratic congress in particular, you know, he received a, you know, he addressed the congress, you know, lot not too long ago. and they were standing ovation and edlio craney and flag, have you ever seen a foreign flag on the well the congress keep going to known this? yeah, i mean it s, it s crazy, but i think the americans who see this and of course, you know, we re, we re a very short attention span americans flip channels. we stream our news or whatever . we don t even watch news, but when we see zalinski, he is not someone who inspires americans. i have no idea. he inspires ukrainians, but he does not inspire americans in the things that he gets publicity for here often is that his lack of a respect his, you know, he, he dresses is if you would, everyone can, he s a panhandle or if that s what he is. danny danny, he s an ungrateful panhandle and i ve noticed guy a suggestion of that. he s a trend user. he may not be, but he certainly appears kidney like we know our cookie. okay, go okay, care and i don t want to get in that. i don t want to go down that path. let me just say to you, in our audience, there was a lot of lot known about zelinski in ukraine and in russia before he got the headline. so i ll leave it at that. okay. okay. cuz i can let me go to you, i would like to jump in. i don t have champions, please do go ahead de style of addressing from the ukrainian side to the wish. and we re disparate, this respect if for example, zalinski demands ukraine, demands the former ambassador of ukraine in gym, and he was a worshipper bandito and he was a yeah, polishing bonded i in the in the gym and media, he demands the gym and side to send submarines now, for your client, he demands gemini to sent if 16 to ukraine. they re not even addressing their of so called allies in a respectful way. therefore, i think even among the popular base here in germany, the people are questioning whether they should really deliver this type of a weapon, sir, to ukraine and especially that the information is sir facing now through the social media platforms that show clearly the neo nazis seen in ukraine, right? so imagine there are photographers for the f, b for the reuters, and the rest. they are really suffering to publish a photo where debbie is no swastika or davies than you or nazi logos in to put those they are doing really they have a lot of work into hands to hide this photos. and despite that, today, the 8th be posted to view as part of the video in which we can see one of the screenshots, one of the officers, he s wearing an isis black on his a shorter. it s crazy, i got a guy, i pull my what little hair i have out when i try to explain this to people. they just say it s propaganda. it s not true. that s what we re facing here. folks. i m going to jump in here. we re going to go to walk short break and after that short break, we ll continue our discussion on changing narrative state with for at this hour, american and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations, to disarm iraq, to free its people, and to defend the world from great who s with we will bring to the iraqi people, food and medicines in supplies and fleet with in the heart. i m rick sanchez and i m here to play with you. whatever you do. do not watch my your show. certainly why watch something that so different my little opinions that you won t get anywhere else. welcome to please or do have the state department, the cia weapons makers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. i change and whatever you do, don t want my show to stay main street because i m probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called direct impact, but again, you probably don t want to watch it because it might just change and the way. mm. thank ah, welcome back to cross stock where all things are considered on peter belt. reminder we re discussing changing narratives. ah okay, let s go back to andre in washington state. andre, i knew probably, you know, as well as you probably feel the same way i do in watching what s been going on in ukraine, not since the beginning of last year, but all the way back to 2014. and you know what? i m getting out here. what i find really frustrating is the lack of context. there s so little context. if i say to what i m question, you know, where you, peter, or why are you so passionate about this? and i always say, because this was inevitable, considering the, the west ignored the antecedents of how we got here, the minsk accords. this whole problem that the, the whole, the entire push to put ukraine into nato and all of this. and you say you show them what this is, what cia director william burns had to say. i can, guy can go on for hours and hours and they just their eyes just glass over because they ve never given the context of this. the a, remember, unprovoked, unprovoked, unprovoked. this was the most provoked war in modern history. andre. yeah, they re gonna text you. a zation of the whole affair is the main map of the actual product by gander. and should have been there. and when you go on the stand off, they don t think they are good at and i will say a necessary, they re good at it either about the only thing they can do actually it can any practical terms is that the are sending off and then there are to basically when you look at the more going on america, on the western politics, it is primarily it s a narrative. i m wondering. it is a little brock to go thanks which applicable to situation. and wonderful day, you want to use your or supplying your brain with arms and money. you re going to see yourself, how foolish this old people themselves, who, who are the american longest and decision makers, especially within the beltway, they have no clue what they re doing when they have no clue what they are doing. because they don t have it down to this article, i don t know warden, physical and intellectual. how to learn how to program to handle information and then what, what comes down to them. they have the block again, they know have one d, c, d. yeah. and don t think they know is, know how to count the limits you the whole and guns and purposes. when you look at this, you will american generals who domain name, mainstream media b in general, key and general controls that whatever those think things on people who are view senior, yours they re, they re elected on their own, on the stand wondering a warfare eat well andre. and considering the generals, you just mentioned what, what can what success can they personally point to they can t. yeah. karen, karen? i mean, i wouldn t, i thought was really painful me for me. i mean i ve, i m blacklisted. i can t go to ukraine for obvious reasons, but i reform before 2014 and a little bit after i went there many times. okay. and what really pissed painful for me is that in, i ve mentioned this before on this program, is it the more the west helps ukraine, the smaller it gets geographically, and it s population not to speak of g d p. and these other things here. i mean, it s a failed state and who wants a failed state? you have all this arms flowing in there. no one really knows what to go except for the people that are commandeering it. they know where it s going here. i mean, literally you feel you worked in the military and i m not asking you to speak for the military. but i mean that the level of cynicism here it s, it s grotesque. karen, and i think actually within even the military today, not the spokespeople and not the retired generals like betray us, but in the military today, i think they re extremely aware of the stupidity and insanity of, of the u. s. policy here. and the reason i say that is, we know this is about russians is about us versus russia to contain control, destroy russia, in some way. we can russia, we have, we have the rand documents to show that that s the objective. but the military understands, well, the u. s military today knows, well that they can t take on russia. we, a nato understands the nato officers understand. they cannot take on russia. so this, this is kind of a fantasy that they re all kind of the, you know, the emperor has no clothes and everyone is not. oh, but he s so beautifully so powerful, you know, but i think they understand the reality. but the problem for me is the concern that i have, and i think people should have is that because this is an emotional, ideological kind of conflict on the american side and among nato and great britain and even ukraine, that winning a war may not be well winning a worse winning the war on their site. that s not possible, but damaging russia causing the amount of chaos that we don t even want to talk about. obviously, chemical nuclear, major destruction of human beings of human life. that is still possible for us, nato and ukraine. less so ukraine, probably the u. s. in nato, to, to conduct an operation like that to cause gross damage and then say, well, we re done, we re done. we, we ve heard, and this is, this is a desperate move. like you said, the desperation that we see in the western media mouthpiece is foreign. foreign affairs, for example, supposed to be the intellectual gaia, the very desperate and desperation in a dying empire. and we, the united states, are that dying empire. that s not a good thing. it s dangerous and so, you know, kind of to keep our fingers crossed a little bit. yeah. makes it, doesn t that the problem the, the part of the problem is here is it in, i ve talked about this here for almost a solid year. every single program is on this topic. there s no learning curve here, and that s what we re all terrified of. ok, b, and because it s being become so emotional, clark, and, and, and berlin. i want to ask you a very simple question and i m not saying you represent the german people, but what is germany getting out of this? ok, i mean, you re industrial, as your industrial base is being severely damaged. okay. the, the, the wonderful success of postwar germany was it s prosperity. ok. that is being challenged right now. and it s, and all the talk about ukrainian sovereignty. what is the u. s. done to german sovereignty? go head in berlin. peter, the biggest loser of this war will be ukraine, and the 2nd biggest loser of this, or will be germany and germany will be she severely but in the economy her in an economic sector. and i think when i make means, we all know that the nato s goal in germany slew the industrialized country. we all know that the goal is to cut the economic integration between the russian at the german side. because a good relations between germany and russia means that is stronger asia and this people up the region, they will never needs nato again. so the goal is to weaken germany, to make it dependent on the united states. security was an economic wise, and unfortunately they are politicians here in germany and they, they follow the american the, it s like the update the gym as it didn t want to send video of heard things. but you know, how much pressure there was on the gym and the government on olaf shows him, said, i m not saying i m not giving him a like a justification. but there was a huge pressure from the media, from the political scene, and from the elliots here in germany on north of shows to sent this year for thank . and i suspect that in a few years, gemini will be weakened into extent that they was depend only on their agricultural sector and they will import the guy s stumpy knightstead 3 times higher. g d o has surprised when they, when they used to buy from russia and therefore the industry was the mice. yep. it came to the lowest we had on away from providing you know, history as well as i do, i, it. some of our viewers may know that, you know, at, towards the end of the 2nd world war, the, that was the morgenthau plan to d and gesture class. he s gentlemen who would have thought they were going to implemented in 2023. i to amazing. okay. andre, how does nato equate himself itself in this conflict right now? i think it s, it s very existence is in play right now because a was never designed to 5. i fight appear conventional conflict. they, they didn t have a plan b, as you pointed out here, what cents worth, i mean it, it was, i don t what i was growing up. it was a supper club. okay. do you have the, john? you re never gonna have to fight. you could have the american umbrella, and this is the, the biggest gross miscalculation ears because russia said, you know, we will find of nato expansion intolerable. and we will react, and they did. andre, future of nato. ah, there without the boat back, 2000 when you want the sand bar and saw was the russian ultimate, which was delivered by eastern level. and we re all remember one of the key points of this all to make own while it was basically least hope demands. dollar all back need to, but still there bought us on $990.00. so i was told my friend on all of the central law office of russian difference be the state was human. who stated that we know the most aware, evolved european vargas made. so nate or, or mostly it s lovely to pull the paper tiger, but logically it is through it s will not be able to come back a large combined arms operation design will defeat the peer irrational, which is a fear in fact, sometimes in some field sense a bonded p r a level, as carol nailed it, or activate, there is a desperation dash. and they are the stand of the very existence of nago, which for the last 30 years, as they want to say was in the start over mission. and they go to find good enough enemy, they have the animal. now, what s the problem with the fact that they are saying is arizona address? so just before existence date, you know, point this enemy and there s a desire to at back you can capture it and do something bad about l. s or to hear mistakes already there were exist. those are made that isn t space here. and we can see already how both european union is beginning to show c. s. cracks and labor will follow. so alicia, and then let me get the last the last 50 seconds to karen. karen, i have a prediction here. russia will po rail on the battlefield. it will dictate its terms, but you know what western leads and their pliant media will say? well, they didn t make it to the english channel. we won. ok. that s what they re going to do that. what they re gonna do? leg 40 seconds. go ahead. well, i think, i think that given we have an election, a presidential election cycle and starting in 2024, we have elections in 2024 biden says he wants to run again. that means the bite and team blank. and all these neocons, they need a victory, so they will create one and they will call it one. and i think your proposal there is fine. they didn t make it to the english channel. so we want this whole thing is about narrative management. i think that they are frustrated in d. c right now because they are trying to figure out how to make it work. how to say what they think needs to be said. the problem is we sacrificed all the people, the people, the human beings in ukraine. yeah. the german economy, the reputation of nato never will be. i would even say the reputation of the west in the eyes of the global majority, the global south, that s actually one of the biggest. that s all the time we have fascinating discussion. i want to thank my guess in berlin, mount jackson, and in washington state. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r t c. unix, i m remember crossed octopus. ah, ah, look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except we re such orders that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about official intelligence. and the point obviously is to place trust rather than fear. so we d like to take on various jobs with artificial intelligence, real summoning with obama protect its own existence with a if that was important to put them put to begin with celia was this because they get to school. if you give a pretty flu your year. oh for you, i teach that way. no, i m reaching out to school and you have to get it from google valuable. would you put the law for sheila wishing to achieve? i m a new model for the woman was more mono, william formula with from bush months and months live, putting them on there. glad to book. then you her with the continued i will just, i did. i use one or more stonily. i m all and i will need someone to study with carson brought. are you serious? i finished. this is just those are 42 here. i m a version of when you come swing to do friday. is the mentor you? oh, are you in the republic before? this is sherry and sherman. yes. another there was a little bit induction. ah . what else seemed wrong when i just don t know. i mean you have to figure out the same because the african and engagement. it was the trail with so many find themselves worlds apart. we choose to look for common ground. ah, for them is with don t staggers, said den by day to day loving b. l v. keep zion my bubble for anybody. no one s office i will share. each do not as. i may be a black with nancy new guy a year and i had a book on any shop. and then i book stopped me to pick one of those. all those local to pre gender objective. i saw a senior leg info about it. my dad was edward j d a n.