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Coincidence we haven't heard from him? >> i'm curious, john kirby, you worked at the state department, pentagon, diplomatic back channels have been going on forever. when the obama administration wanted to have a nuclear deal with iran there was a very secret back channel. talks with iranians, world's number one leading state sponsor of terrorism that obama administration authorized through oman. that's where they were having a -- that was top secret. did you know about that back channel? >> i did not know about it. and that's fine with me. >> we're talking about the sitting administration. ye...

After back channel on syria and other issues. the question is why do it out of the reach of american intelligence or the -- >> and the detail -- >> and the white house which was set up to help with exactly these kinds of communications. >> and details gloria is talking about is the exact detail the white house keeps leaving out when they are defending back channels. they aren't mentioning that jared kushner asked to use the russian's equipment to do this. so that -- there hasn't been an answer. there needs to be an answer. perhaps jared kushner will answer that question to the intelligence com...

His. having said that, that is point a to point b and it is that truth that the fbi is trying to figure out as we speak. >> okay. steve hall, i know you're a retired cia chief. to dana's answer on this meeting with jared kushner and this compound of putins and might this have been an opportunity to get a message to vladimir putin and to dana's reporting on this information that they pulled. your thoughts? >> it's interesting and i can only think of two possible options for it. the first is we've heard a lot of information being thrown around about kushner looking for back channels. the trump a...

Looking for back channels. somebody like the head of this bank who was indeed close to putin -- he's a former intelligence officer having gone to the training school -- so it's clearly there's a connection there and was just kushner looking for another way to start sort of communication prior to the inauguration? that's one option. the other thing -- and i think it's a bit more toubliroubling,e at least, kushner is first and foremost a new york businessman who's had business and ties with russia. so was there a business angle to this? was there something more than just him acting as a member o...

To trying to establish back channels? >> back channels can be bad. there is iran contra. there is a lot of scandals. hillary clinton. these stories don't get a lot of attention. we all know the story of the russian government giving $2.6 million to the clinton foundation and getting uranium one in return. what you never hear, pete, is that the clinton foundation got $2 million from scovula university. she arranged to have an exchange with silicone valley and sculva became the silicone valley of russia in a great irony she may have given the russians the snake that bit her. pete: back channels ...