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I think there's real confusion. there's also going to be significant damage from these actions. as the retaliations come in. people will feel it in terms of products that they buy in terms of the cost of things that are part of products that they buy. and so i think we're just at the beginning of a a kind of blow-back from this action for the president, for the white house and the public that says, i don't get it. >> yeah, a lot of people don't get it and mike barnicle, once again you've got the president of the united states undermining our alliances. with canada, with the eu, specifically, b...

Writer at espn.com and author of the new book "the heritage: black athletes, a divided america and the politics of patriotism." howard good morning to you on this saturday. so not everyone was on board. so what happened here? and what does it tell you about where the owners stand on this issue? now that we've had a couple of days to process the blow-back. >> the nfl owners seem to have been completely engaging in the culture war that the president started when attacked the players back in september. he said back then that the players were sob's and then he said they were unpatriotic and he sai...

>> we still actually don't know what the story is, we don't know which of giuliani's statements and the white house statements stand as the official account of this episode. you know, all this time later. i want to say a couple things, one about getting too close to the sun in this white house. absolutely. bannon wasn't on tv so much, but had the book about him, he was on the cover of "time" magazine. >> right. >> we know from the famous scaramucci ten days that at first, trump really liked scaramucci, he liked, you know, all the stuff he was doing, liked when scaramucci was punching people in...

Distraction and earning him negative press rather than the positive press and the positive reactions that he wanted from giuliani in the first place? and i think for a lot of trump supporters, like myself, we are hoping that that is sooner rather than later because giuliani means well, but he can also run the other way and do more harm than good. >> i actually see it a little bit differently. i think that, yes, i agree that he loves people to go and defend him, but then it's the blow-back that he looks at. when you have somebody from fox news telling the president that he is responsible for hi...

On the head when he talked about the kind of client that rudy giuliani and all of this lawyers have, which is donald trump. somebody who is a liar, somebody who will not tell you the truth, even if you ask him the question straight out. to me, it's still baffling, gloria, you reported this, that before giuliani went out on the sean hannity, supposedly he and the president were on the same page. nobody else was, nobody else knew what they were talking about or what giuliani was going to say. supposedly, giuliani and trump had agreed that this is what giuliani was going to do. not only that, let...