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Groups were following the rules. >> the crackdown on the influx, the sudden spike in conservative groups applying for tax exempt status. the crackdown on them only began once you had media attention on how many groups were applying. the irs needs to do something about these groups. and suddenly there was confusion at the irs about them. let me ask you about this e-mail, lois lerner who pleaded the fifth, will not answer questions and will not give you documents. she's now suddenly retired on the taxpayer's dime. she was on the receiving end of an e-mail from someone at treasury that uncovered,...

Groups were following the rules. >> the crackdown on the influx, the sudden spike in conservative groups applying for tax exempt status. the crackdown on them only began once you had media attention on how many groups were applying. the irs needs to do something about these groups. and suddenly there was confusion at the irs about them. let me ask you about this e-mail, lois lerner who pleaded the fifth, will not answer questions and will not give you documents. she's now suddenly retired on the taxpayer's dime. she was on the receiving end of an e-mail from someone at treasury that uncovered,...

Specifically democratic senator carl levin on the hill. >> the irs issued new draft regulations on c-4s that are nonprofit groups that can participate in politics as long as their effort doesn't exceed 25%. this rule created a lot of i think it's 20,000 comments, the vast majority of the negative against this draft rule. republicans asked the irs' new chief to withdraw that regulation. is that going to happen? >> at the moment, he talked in front of this committee hearing this week. did he not give any assurances he was going to withdraw it. what these regulations do is formalize the targeting...

Specifically democratic senator carl levin on the hill. >> the irs issued new draft regulations on c-4s that are nonprofit groups that can participate in politics as long as their effort doesn't exceed 25%. this rule created a lot of controversy. i think it's 20,000 comments, the vast majority of the negative against this draft rule. republicans asked the irs' new chief to withdraw that regulation. is that going to happen? >> at the moment, he talked in front of this committee hearing this week. did he not give any assurances he was going to withdraw it. what these regulations do is formalize ...

Department's ruth madrigal says, don't know who in your organization is keeping tabs on c-4s, i've got my radar up. this seemed interesting. other than sparks flying, what is going to come of this? let's start with you. you were following the hearing this week. what did we learn that we didn't know before? >> the obama administration has this line that there was no corruption, no targeting, all caused by low-level employees in the cincinnati office of the i are everyone s who didn't understand a confusing law on confirming 504 c-4 groups. >> we learned something that contradicted that this wee...