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Activity can be political. one of the thing the treasury says they want to find a way of quantifying is that. they, they want to issue their own ruling for the first time on exactly how much of political activity is accept k acceptable. the next item up in the way of guidance. it is not addressed. in these particular regulations. but they do -- ask for comments on future guidance. that's one of the items. >> and, julienne, that -- there is that second stage to it. what you're talking about. in the meantime, julienne, what do you expect the political reaction to this situation will be. and will...

Primarily means 51% of your activity and 49% of your activity can be political. one of the thing the treasury says they want to find a way of quantifying is that. they, they want to issue their own ruling for the first time on exactly how much of political activity is acce acceptable. the next item up in the way of guidance. it is not addressed. in these particular regulations. but they do -- ask for comments on future guidance. that's one of the items. >> and, julienne, that -- there is that second stage to it. what you're talking about. in the meantime, julienne, what do you expect the polit...

There may be a public -- hearing. and itch the f the normal regulations process is allowed to work. final regulations will emerge in a couple years. >> julian epstein is set in stone. but what the treasury clearly indicates, they want to move toward claire fee rity and try to get certainly what they call candidate related political activity out of 501 c 4s. >> some what out of it. they should put a footnote out of this program. it is a significant move. it clarifies what has been lacking in clarity for the last 50 years. the scan daufl dal was never a scandal. groups on the left and right.

The irs scandal looks like it's a bureaucratic scandal. >> it is. >> not the political scandal that republicans were wish they had come up with. >> absolutely. it appears they have really overplayed their hand. it's still a scandal, a problem. this is not what the irs is supposed to be doing. this kind of behavior is absolutely horrific. that being said the republican party was trying to make this into something so absolutely awful. now we find out they were looking at democratic groups as republican. >> i might argue was it horrific or an overwhelmed irs agency on 501 c 4s and they hold -- i ...

Organization of great complexity. he said i did not get particularly interested, i was not particularly interested in this piece of the agency. i stayed away from it because it is sensitive. well, it is kind of like the secretary of state saying, gee, the jewish people get very concerned about israel so i'm not going on wade into the mideast. you can't do that. you have to do the whole agency and that included these c-4s, which you know were generating quite a bit of controversy. so it was unl fortune, the way it was handled. >> you worked for president george w. bush when you were heading up ...