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among other things, mike pence's novel -- to put it kindly -- novel notion about why he should not have to testify before a grand jury. >> novel is one way of putting it, lawrence. i can't wait to see. it >> thanks, alex. >> thank you. >> well the breaking news of the night is that special prosecutor jeff jack smith has invoked the crime fraud exception in a motion to force one of donald trump's lawyers to testify before a grand jury without being able to refuse to answer questions because of the attorney client privilege. the crime fraud exception can overrule the attorney client...

Made again, is that this not even covered by attorney client privilege. -- fraud. so for those reasons, i think that there is no question that these lawyers are going to have to answer those questions. and it is also responsible for the lawyers to insist that there be a court order. because a lawyer cannot wave these privileges on their own. so they are really looking for the judge to make a statement about what they can and cannot do. i guess the final point i would make is that it is very clear that donald trump has to be asserting attorney client privilege or else there would be no issue he...

This. but we've got a long way to go, as john said. >> and you can't cherry pick this. the democrats, if they're going to embrace jim comey, cannot wave away what they said about loretta lynch. but as republicans, rightfully so, as they say that, they find james comey to be a credible witness. if you believe everything he's saying there about loretta lynch, don't you have to believe everything he's said about donald trump? >> they are going to pick at james comey leaking a document that he knew would lead to a special counsel and the reason he told us he did it very forthrightly and i don't re...