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Moments of crisis. and i imagine you would have seen situations like that in otherfamilies. you had been in hospital bedside situations, you'd been counselling families in the most difficult situations. and yet, i guess, you also felt, "this is me." yeah. and i was powerless. and david, who was also ordained, but he was a medic before that, he'd worked in a&e. so these were scenarios that we both had encountered professionally, but i couldn't do anything about it. so i thought, what can i do about this? and i thought, well, i love him and i'm going to make sure that ijust locate, i'd centre my...

I learnt this with david, actually. we've had a very, you know, you bruise. you knock bits off. it's not always sweetness and light. and that, i think, needs to be part of the telling of the story. the anger that we referred to that you felt at times within your loving relationship has other layers to it, and i want to explore those. anger with the church, of which you were an important part. and david was, too, because he was also a vicar. yeah. here, the two of you living in a loving relationship and your own church would not recognise, fully recognise your relationship. indeed, you had to p...

Writing about somebody�*s son, somebody�*s brother. yeah, so i got their permission to do it. and partly it was because... ..i wanted to tell the story, actually, and partly because i thought it might be good for other people who were going through the same thing. and also, actually, writers write, it's what i do. is that ever exploitative? oh, yeah. yes, of course it is. this is the thing people say about the chip of ice, don't they, in the writer's heart. and there are elements, i think, when you're dealing with stuff which is extremely painful for other people, and you're editing and se...

I got permission from david's family. i was going to say, because, you know, you're writing about your husband, your life partner, but you're also writing about somebody�*s son, somebody�*s brother. yeah. so i got their permission to do it. and partly it was because... ..i wanted to tell the story, actually, and partly because i thought it might be good for other people who were going through the same thing. and also, actually, writers write, it's what i do. is that ever exploitative? oh, yeah. yes, of course it is. this is the thing people say about the chip of ice, don't they, in the wri...

It is very striking. do you really think, and of course, we're going back sort of three years now, you've had time to reflect on it, do you think you really did go mad for a while? yeah, i think so. and it really made me understand how i'm sometimes a bit puzzled by grieving people, by these odd surges of anger or odd failure to grasp what, to me, would be an obvious reality. and i realise now that your perception, your cognition, all that stuff goes a bit a bit haywire. the one thing in it that kind of is solid, is the experience of other widows and widowers. so that was really good. i didn't...