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Documents. gillian: it's as american as apple pie. that's why there is a white house counsel's office to help manage this. howie: the court had to order the white house to turn over documents in the fast and furious investigation. >> no one should talk to this committee. everyone should take the fifth. if everyone takes the fifth the american people will understand this is not a legitimate investigation. howie: i don't think when he was a federal prosecutor would have looked kindly on this. mo: if these folks don't have anything to hide from, then turn it over and go talk to them and make your...

Mo: you have michael cohen who is an admitted liar, a convicted liar. one of the least trustworthy people in washington. you look at public opinion polls. they trust him more than they do the president of the united states. whether this will tarnish his testimony could open him up to legal jeopardy. in the court of public opinion, they are all seen as liars right now. mollie: when he turned on the president he started getting favorable coverage. his testimony was the best of the season so far. i agree with mollie. i think this support for cohen is because he turned on the president. howie: tha...

Policies. but this is as old as the presidency itself. the push and pull we are seeing between president trump and the congressional overlords. we have seen it with presidents bush and obama. what's different for president trump is the investigation into his personal finances. howie: i covered this going back to the reagan administration. wouldn't the democrats have avoided bad press if they had spaced out these requests? mo: it's interesting one read the two stories, the "new york times" and the "washington post," they are not necessarily mutually exclusive. it represents a fundamental threat...

Democratic case and argument. howie: to the extent that president trump resists these demands and there is precedence for these battles. do you see the press covering it as a typical battle, the kind we have seen before between the executive and branches? mollie: generally speaking people approve of governmental -- oversight of golf at alt --oversight of govel agencies rather than their personal lives. mo: we'll see where it goes. but there are legitimate questions about the president's financial and business dealing that connect directly to some of

Mo: the judge said this trial, this case had nothing to do with these allegations. howie: man for the wasn't charged with collusion. mo: it was a stark departure from the sentencing guidelines. i think that caught a lot of people off guard. i heard an increasing number of commentators broaden this and say it's interesting because there are people of color, people who are less well off who have been convicted of crimes that were far left and received bigger sentences. howie: i think it's fair to analyze why he got so much less than bob mueller's office recommended. but some of the people we saw...