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Moderate as he has the reputation for. he's sucked the oxygen out of the room in the democratic party. he's taking all that and the radical left is pushing maybe harris or booker -- maybe not gillibrand. >> melissa: not one person. >> but she is. >> melissa: she's trying. kennedy, it's interesting he mentions joe biden who did not go yesterday. and you wonder, there are those who said maybe he was napping, maybe he was sleepy -- >> no, he was at an event in ohio. >> melissa: so not sleepy but in fact maybe he knows what that room wanted and he's keeping himself separate from the pack by not sh...

>> i can't see, fred, how it benefits at all in terms of his criminal case. now perhaps he he would win somehow in the court of public opinion. he said this was the first time he really got to defend himself, but when you look at this bombastic and threatening interview where he's making these gestures and this conduct, it doesn't benefit him. we know in a trial he doesn't have to testify on his own behalf because of the fifth amendment, but essentially he has testified. this entire interview can be introduced by the prosecution, and jurors will have an opportunity to look at him. although he ...

He wants to testify. >> no, he doesn't. >> whether his lawyers -- >> yes, he does. >> how do we know? does he really want to? it is like talking both sides of your mouth. you know what i mean? i really want to, wink, wink, nod, i really can't, and how does anybody know which it is? >> right, fred. >> it is going to be more than what it is right now. it is going to be more than what we know right now. so whether mueller wants to limit that testimony, whether lanny davis wants to limit that testimony, it doesn't matter, it is going to be something that is coming out even before the house, even b...

>> senator santorum, on this leadership question, i'm sure you saw the new polling from fox news, the president's approval rating has fallen overall, 42 to 38% from last month to this month. what's even more intriguing it's fallen among some of his core members of the base. white men with no college degree, 68% approval last month, 56% now. is there a lesson at all in that in what nancy is saying? >> look, i mean, i've said this many times on this program, is that donald trump's demeanor is -- doesn't benefit him, you know, in governing this country. i understand it may benefit him in some pol...

Are you buying that? >> absolutely not. i mean, again, these are nine pages of somewhat rough outlines of what a tax proposal will be like. he's clearly leaving the details to congress, and to the gary cowens and steve mnuchins of the world to flesh out. but for him to say this doesn't benefit him and the people like him, other real estate developers and private equity moguls is ridiculous. >> steven, the president's plan cuts the top tax rate for the wealthy from 39% to 36%, so how can he say it doesn't help the rich including him? >> well, i think -- by the way, don, i worked with donald tru...