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At the white house podium. >> i think it's fair to say we all could have done a better job dealing with this situation. >> true. i shouldn't say it that way, actually. it's good for him to stand up. they don't often say that, especially in this administration. most administrations don't like to say, we didn't get this right. there were other things at the briefing we could talk about if you wish, but at least he said, yeah, we didn't get this right. now the president is mad. now the president is making phone calls. he said chief of staff kelly blew this. >> the president doesn't like bad press...

Of the system. >> it's hard to say no to the boss. but that's what staff go sd. and that's when they have to stand up and say, mr. secretary, if you want me to serve you well, you got to listen. we're not doing it the right way and you have to get the general counsel and the other professionals in the office to weigh in. now in this case, i don't think this was close to the line. no reason on god's green earth why an hhs secretary should have to fly on a private jet. he's not in the chain of command. doesn't have to have secure communications with the white house. no rationale. this is a secre...

What is strange they seem to have only occasional influence on the president of the united states right now who seems to be very willing to ignore and just go his own direction despite where his advisers think is the best course for the nation. >> john, you were quoted in "the washington post" saying kushner's reported back channel effort illustrates the trump team had less trust in the american government than in a foreign adversary that undermined our election. tell me about is that influential in what we heard from angela merkel, the idea russia threatens in the eyes of some european nato a...

Comes to military mutual defense. >> well, we were joined at the hip. this was a sacrosanct alliance that gave america leverage in key issues and i think angela merkel, while she does reflect at least the private thinking of a lot of people, her comments -- because she is probably the least flamboyant leader out there -- these comments are so important that they, in my view, punctuate just a very different direction for the notion of american leadership in the global space that i think we'll see america become smaller, less able to leverage its power and less powerful over the long run because...

Trips, he's returning to work more publicly following this memorial day holiday with congress in recess and only more attention going to be focused on this russian probe. >> matt welch who is with me here in the studio, the it's an interesting concept unless the problem is coming from inside the war room. jared kushner is a big part of this. the president doesn't like bad press. we know that. he particularly doesn't like it when it originates in the white house. there is, whether or not you think jared kushner did something wrong, this focus on one of his key advisers is problematic. >> the ad...