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First meeting it will be the two leaders doing most of the talking but sergei lavrov has been foreign minister for a million years and knows putin well and knows when it would be appropriate for him to interview. tony blinken worked for biden for 20 plus years. it will be a very comfortable conversation, by the end among by the four of them. the key is to see how long this two plus two meeting proceeds or whether they go into a larger meeting. the longer the small meeting proceeds the more likelihood they're actually talking something significant. >> ben rhodes, respond to gene, if you will. >...

Of smile. says he does very well with a weak hand. and the response was he does very well with a weak hand because he will look you in the face and he will lie and he knows he's lying and he knows that you know he's lying and he just doesn't care. so really the whole trust but verify reagan slogan just will never fit here. >> i don't think it will. and remember, what putin is coming in with with his defined agenda, he knows that biden is going to go through the laundry list, don't attack our elections, don't kill alexei navalny, don't do this and he's going to say, fine. i don't have anything ...

>> president biden, vladimir putin headed in for the meeting now. best wishes and good-bye. >> good-bye. i'm getting the hell out of here. i am not responsible for anything that happens after this. >> i'm shaking hands and not looking in the eye. >> i'm going to get into that deeper later on. but david ignatius, getting back to the question, the real problem would be here is if a red line were drawn inside of this meeting, and then ignored after that line was crossed, of course. we all remember the obama administration, of course, remembers putting down that red line in syria and then ignoring...

And admittedly it's only five months in, but the performance has been weak so far. >> let's bring in right now former deputy national security adviser to president obama, ben rhodes, also chairman of the renew democracy initiative, former world chess champion garry kasparov. we always put former world chess champions above anybody that's worked at the white house. so ben, i'm sorry. we'll get to you second. actually i'm doing this for a sequencing reason. i know that garry has the same position as ambassador bolton about this meeting and then ben, i'll tell you why you think now is the good ti...

>> joe, that's the danger is that this meeting will set a new platform, new enabler for punt's adventurism. putin has been displaying contempt for the united states, for norms of international behavior now really for ten years. i'm enough of a child of the cold war that when you have a dangerous adversary, the sight we just saw of the two presidents meeting, shaking hands and having a normal dialogue and establishing their positions, their red lines, if you will, strikes me as beneficial. i do think that even with somebody as unpredictable, volatile, dangerous as vladimir putin, having contact...