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Investigations are an attack on penal like me rather than 21% say that it is about upholding the rule law. in that kind of environment, there is not a lot of wiggle room there for republican political figures to be on other side of voters in this context. >> well, and i think that that is very obviously reflected in the behavior of republican politics, including trump's rivals would have really been weary of frontally taking him on. of even saying things like you lost the 2020 election. and i think that is one of the reasons that they've been struggling because they're in this trap. if they do...

Seen before. the flip side, of course, they say is that if he's not there to defend himself, perhaps they'll just use the time to introduce themselves further to the american people. i mean, as you know well, the first debate for anyone is really a proper introduction to the american people for the first time, no matter what position you've held in the past. so they don't want to spend too much time talking about donald trump at that first debate. though i do know, as you know well, folks like chris christie and others who have been hammering trump will be the ones to start this chorus of what...

Alike are still wanting to defend him and to rush to his side. that's because they can look at the entire justice system and try to paint it as corrupt, not just against trump, but against republicans and also against those voters who trump appeals to and those hard-right maga republicans also appeal to. now, we obviously know that that's not the case, as you were just talking about. senator graham voted less than a decade ago to confirm the judge he's now railing against, saying he's biased against former president trump and needs to be replaced. it just goes to show that no matter what trump...

Their best hope is to all gang up and in chorus to make that electability argument against donald trump and so far only folks like congressman will hurd and asa hutchinson have done that in a full-throated way and these are candidates that don't have much name i.d., they don't have a snowball's chance of winning, so right now there is not enough firepower going against donald trump on this argument. and i don't think that it is going to change anything for just a couple of candidates to be out there making the argument. >> and, just wondering, john, as someone who went up against trump at one ...

Not a cents on defeating joe biden. he's looking at ways to get in there. >> this is probably the biggest part of the re-set as that we've seen so far. as we mentioned, so far desantis has shown a willness to fight everybody but trump but with this statement, we're seeing the gloves come off a little bit. this is a little bit more tougher and sharp than before and it gets at the general electability argument that trump has been making on friday in iowa, saying, hey, look, this person is self-serving, that is what desantis is saying. this is behavior we haven't seen before. >> and it's perhaps ...