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Office of president of United States and will preserve, protect and defense the constitution of the u. S. Except where nobody gets killed or robbed. His point is basically that a crime is a crime is a crime, correct . Exactly. I think you see through georges tweet a commonality, again, between he and i. Even though we come from very different sides of the aisle, but a common belief, a core belief in the rule of law in america. And thats a belief that Rudy Giuliani himself shared as a prosecutor. I dont think he was only putting murderers behind bars. There are whole Statute Books being enforce...

This case before you move full steam ahead? >> let's just back all the way up to the mueller report. which clearly, in the report, although mueller did a very bad job explaining that he had found, he had found that there was, in that case, an effort by the president to obstruct justice. so that is fact one. we have also held hearings on the emoluments issue. >> ed: hang on, but you say he saw cases that could have been obstruction, but can't let that stand. bob mueller did not make a decision on obstruction, and they are not been those charges against the president. so now you are going back i...

And steve kornacki, thank you as well. president trump asked for a favor, moments later the president of ukraine mentioned he stayed at a trump hotel. as "the washington post" put it this could be the other ukraine problem. joining me now is david ferrenthal, what did you find? >> you found the president of ukraine say the last time i was in new york i stayed at your hotel. and you have leaders saying president trump i like your golf course, your hotels. it's a way that leaders see his properties as a way to influence him: it's important to note as well, david, we don't know when he stayed at ...

Venue where the talks were taking place, that this kind of thing, recent, understandable by the public, may have true consequences? >> reporter: i think it's all a risk that it could have true consequences. i think most people don't know sort of what's going to -- what's going to sort of catch fire, what could catch on, what could turn into a bigger story than it actually is. i mean, the fear here is that, you know, there's been concern about these emoluments issue for a while and people staying at the trump hotel in washington, but maybe as democrats or investigators or reporters start diggin...

Risk that it could have true consequences. i think most people don't know sort of what's going to -- what's going to sort of catch fire, what could catch on, what could turn into a bigger story than it actually is. i mean, the fear here is that, you know, there's been concern about these emoluments issue for a while and people staying at the trump hotel in washington, but maybe as democrats or investigators or reporters start digging deeper into these other properties, that there's more threads that could be pulled, that could start to unravel something bigger. that's the risk, if there's anyt...