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Think in his fantasy mind, he may be a warrior, but there's nobody to fire back. the first person to fight back, this guy cuts and runs. but this is the same -- we're seeing the same thing over and over witness different pictures, but the same type of mentality. people using violence as a mean for conflict resolution. instead of taking responsibility for their own issues in life. >> and noteworthy, we are learning 12 of the victims were children. thank you very much, clint van zandt. coming up, we are learning more about the victims in sutherland springs. we'll hear from family and friends o...

Moral intent, as it were, to someone by saying that they've lied, i think you run the risk that you look like you are being -- you're not being objective. >> joining us now, jonathan, msnbc political analyst, and columnist from the "daily beast." back with us, michael d'antonio. your verdict on the 9/11 thousands of muslims celebrating in nrew jersey. do you call it a lie? if not, what do you call it? >> untrue and a falsehood. i'm not sure it's a lie because in trump's fantasy mind, he might have believed it. he believes all kinds of conspiracy theories, he might have read it online somewhere...

>> joining us now, jonathan, msnbc political analyst, and columnist from the "daily beast." back with us, michael d'antonio. your verdict on the 9/11 thousands of muslims celebrating in new jersey. do you call it a lie? if not, what do you call it? >> untrue and a falsehood. i'm not sure it's a lie because in trump's fantasy mind, he might have believed it. he believes all kinds of conspiracy theories, he might have read it online somewhere. and believed a lie, repeated a lie, but i think a lie is more like when he said, you know, hillary clinton wants to abolish the 2nd amendment. he knows it...