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Outline over the coming weeks -- chris: but doesn't it make it a little bit hard, i mean, let's say that jonah's right and this was a quid pro quo. in the end -- and i know people said, well, attempted robbery, one's not as bad as the other, but they're both crimes, but in the end, ukraine did get the aid, and they never do did do an investigation. again, is that worth kicking a president who was duly elected by other 60 million people out of office? >> i think it is. and i think the democrats will play this smartly if they keep it focused on ukraine. there are democrats who wanted to impeach ...

Chris: the decision to clear. >> yeah. look, take the goldstein case. he hadn't had his court-martial yet. that is the way you get to find out what the actual facts are, and he short circuited that by intervening the way he did. on the gallagher, chief gallagher, the navy seal who was pardoned or had his sentence commuted, i guess, there were members of his squad who took incredible risk to report his behavior. and that sends a signal, this could send a signal, don't do this. i agree with the concerns about the overly lawyering up our military, but i'm not sure the messages being sent by this ...

President -- >> that's correct. >> president zelensky never made an announcement? this is what i can't believe, and you're their star witness. chris: isn't it the case, congressman, that none of the witnesses that you've had on the stand so far in public has any firsthand evidence of what president trump said? >> that is the case, chris. and, of course, that changes this week. the three witnesses that you saw in public this week, of course, were important because they could give can be context to what has occurred. and you summarized it in talking to my friend mr. scalise, it was characterized...

Holmes told members of congress in his sworn testimony he asked whether the president cares about ukraine. he says sondland told him mr. trump only cares about big stuff that benefits the president like the biden investigation. doesn't that contradict the president's story, sir? all the president cared about was going after the bidens? >> well, if that was the case, then president trump wouldn't have done all of the things that he's done to help ukraine stand up to russia. and, in fact, on the original zelensky phone call that was released, president zelensky was with thank president trump for...

Do -- to do something corrupt or do i threaten you. in this case, it's possible that both occurred. the president said, you know, i'm not going to give you a white house meeting, you know, or i are give you aid if you do this. and let me be clear, i'm not saying the president said that. that is, of course, the purpose of these hearings that we have out. but allegedly the president did something that looks both like bribery and extortion. this is not about focus groups, this is about making abuse of power understandable to the american people. chris: and finally, i've got 30 seconds. i want to ...