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The ukrainians to do this -- when you ask somebody to do something, you owe them something in the future. that's enough and our founders, they imagine that foreign governments would seek to work in our elections and they did everything they could to try and stop that from happening, but again, when you're dealing with ukrainians, you need to know this, they depend on us economically, militarily and for our credibility. so even if you're just talking around dilatory aid, telling them to do something, they know what's going on there. >> martha: all right. the campaign, the trump campaign has sai...

They're more or less ending up defining the democratic party as the party of the progressive and angry left, not the moderates of joe biden. charles: is it going to work, bill? >> i don't think so. senator durbin said we can't be the party of impeachment, thattal we're going to do is inpeach, impeach. and chairman nadler said, you know, one at a time. we're working op donald trump -- charles: that was something, when nadler said -- [laughter] >> it's not popular opinion. it is an orchestrated campaign of smears to intimidate. it's really ugly, and it's meant to attack the legitimacy of the cou...

His committee. i'm not sure that that actually happens. i hope it does. but, you know, to biden's point, if there were no other reason to go forward with the impeachment or try to move the needle a little bit, this is just adding to that. >> and what do democrats do if the president, which he does very well, has already pivoted the story line here saying look at the bidens, don't look at what potentially this whistleblower has. we don't know yet. >> we don't know yet. but i think the democrats really need to -- and it is not as sexy as impeachment talks, but buckle down and do their work and t...

Heard, but we may potentially retaliate against you. adam schiff, to his credit, essentially sending messages to this whistleblower and others potentially to say come tremendously directly to the committee. i'm not sure that that actually happens. i hope it does, but to biden's point, if there were no other reason to go forward with impeachment or at least try to move needle a little bit, this is just adding to the rationale. >> what do democrats do if the president, which he does very well, has already pivoted the story line here saying look at the booinidens. >> we don't know yet, but at the...

The impeachment investigation of president trump. in a five page resolution, released yesterday, lawmakers proposed changes to the committee's hearing rules which include granting chairman jerry nadler the ability to designate full or subcommittee hearings. allow staff to question witnesses for an additional hour. divided between the minority and majority. and grand jury materials to be reviewed in closed sessions. and for the president's counsel to respond to the committee's findings. here is what nadler had to say about the democrats decision to formalize impeachment talks. >> we've done tha...