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President knew that flynn was in some sort of legal jeopardy, informs mueller's judgment about whether or not he has enough proof to make out intent. >> let me go toeli on this. the news value here that the president -- it does have a little echo of watergate, when did the president know, what did he know? it's actually the backwards of that. what do you make of this, the fact that the president was not investigating something, he already knew it? >> well, and he'd been warned by president obama, by sally yates. he'd been warned by a lot of people about mike flynn. but the proof that his own c...

He's basically rolling it up close to the president. so instead of trying to play to the president on like the third yard line they're trying to go to the other end of the field by saying oh, wait a minute, we're going to grab the ball and we're going to head down to the other end of the field and prove there's something amiss with this minerals deal, this uranium deal, or that it was someone that shouldn't have been working for the mueller investigation even if mueller fired them, he shouldn't have been there in the first place, and we'll make that the issue. it's a scorched earth policy it l...

Showing your work. and i think that's something that when i talk to people around the president, people who are outside the white house who are trying to soften the ground, to soften up mueller a little bit and say look, this is a witch hunt, this is bad, he's friends with comey, all these things to get the public not to believe the findings, this is why. i hear them talk about an obstruction of justice charge, sort of belittling that charge. oh, it's just some ticky tack thing. he didn't know any better, he's not a politician, they're out to get him on everything. if he knew and mueller can p...

And we saw on the faces as you've said -- >> no crisis there. >> there's no crisis there. no. >> this is astounding. i'll tell you, i don't understand it. i still have been watching the republican party since i was born practically. i don't get this genuflection. this submission. does that mean mueller can do all he wants, they're going to say no thanks? >> i don't believe that. because i think when you actually talk to republicans off the record and get their real understanding of what's going on, if mueller comes out with some really rock solid evidence that he's broken the law i think these...

Groundwork to fire robert mueller. i think a more likely scenario is laying the groundwork to delegitimize any findings he has later. if you can create this skepticism about robert mueller and the fbi now, then when they ultimately find evidence of interference with the election you can say, well, we told you all along he was unfair, that the system was rigged, this was a witch hunt, et cetera. >> you know, ken, last question. i get the feeling what they're really working on -- suppose it looks like mueller is about to get evidence that the president obstructed justice with regard to this russ...