no, please, please, oh! (shrieks in terror) (heavy breathing and snorting) no, no. the running of the bulldogs? surprising. what s not surprising? how much money aleia saved by switching to geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. welcome to the second hour of 360. at the end of a truly remarkable day, children acting like adults and adults acting like children. on the table tonight, students gunning for change, not children but young adults, push for gun control as their classmates go on. we have more with the effect it s having on how the president actually governs. jeff zeleny joins us from the white house. jeff, this was the first shooti white house briefing since the shooting. it was the first briefing and it was not long enough to answer the questions hanging over us tonight. remember the tweet the president made over the weekend for blaming the fbi for missing the warning signs in florida. sarah sanders tried walking that back. she said, look, this was the act of a deranged individual, in her words, and she said the president essentially didn t mean that. but she went on to say that the fbi s attention on what she called a hoax, the russian collusion situation, has dominated their time. but then she went on to say in greater words than the president has that russia did, indeed, meddle in the election. but it was a split screen conversation, still talking about guns as well. and that s what the president addressed from the east room of the white house shortly after the white house press briefing. let s watch. a few moments ago, i signed a memorandum directing the attorney general to propose regulations to ban all devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns. so we heard the president there really somewhat of a surprise. the white house had not telegraphed that. this has been coming since the las vegas shooting back in september. they had not talked about this much at all since then. clearly the white house wanting to be part of this conversation on guns. you heard the president there signing a directive. unclear exactly, though, what that will do. we re not talking about new laws here, just existing laws, anderson. the president is weighing in again tonight on twitter about background checks. what s he saying? he is, indeed. another sign the president has as we were talking about over the weekend and yesterday, has been effectively, at least, paying attention closely to that florida shooting. he was talking about wbr id= wbr1989 /> how it s everyone s responsibility here to do something on guns. this is what he said a short time ago on social media. he said this: whether you wbr id= wbr2089 /> are a republican or democrat, we must now focus on strengthening background checks. this sounds a little bit like the donald trump of yesterday when he was for strong background checks before he was running for president. do you remember when he was thinking about running as a reform party candidate? he was for gun control. all that fof that changed in 20n he was being supported by the nra. certainly the president wants to be engaged this this conversation on guns. less clear if he will actually /b> lead his party to something here. the house and the senate are out this week, so the president is sort of alone in these conversations. but keep an eye on that, because advisers say they have even been surprised by how interested he seems in doing something on this. again tomorrow here he ll be talking to some students at the white house, some other school leaders as well. so the new person in this equation is the president. we ll see if he leads on this, anderson. as the president at least alluded to tonight, preventing another mass shooting is their responsibility. they went to parkland, some through tears, as they banned them from the high school. are you on a bus there? yeah, we re on a bus. we re about an hour away. when you heard them not support a bill to ban assault rifles and high-caliber magazines, i wonder what you thought? there is a long battle ahead of you. to be honest, we re all super pissed about that and don t think we re not gloing to addres it tomorrow. i hear it was an overwhelming vote not to proceed on this. i don t know how that s possible considering this happened in their own state, and there are kids that are dead from their own state, along with kids that were there from our school, and they just they don t care. governor rick scott, obviously the governor of the floor, held what he called an emergency meeting tonight to find solutions to protect students and said that he would put forth a gun proposal policy on friday to, quote, move the needle forward. do you buy that? does that give you any kind of hope? i ll have hope from the governor when i hear it myself and when he actually takes some action on it. because he may have an a-plus rating from the nra but he does not have an a-plus rating from us. the vote was 36-71 today in the state house. on a national level, the president announced a plan to move towards banning bump stocks, which is something that was talked a lot about after las vegas and then sort of disappeared. is that a big enough step forward, in your mind? no. they should have banned bump stocks a long time ago, and that wouldn t have prevented anyone from my school dying. if you had the chance to introduce your own bill, what would be in it? have you thought that far ahead? you? definitely. i ve always been an activist for gun reform but never to this extent. i was one of the people that would kind of forget about a mass shooting after it happened, which is awful, because you don t really get how it feels until it happens to you. but we re going to make sure that nobody forgets. we talked to david hoge in the last hour, and some people have been writing about him, some conspiracy websites, some far right websites suggesting maybe he was a crisis actor, which is obviously a ludicrous notion, he s obviously a student from the school saying his dad who had been formerly with the fbi may have put him up to it. when you hear comments like this that come out of the wake of a school shooting, does it scare you? does it anger you? does it diminish your desire to be involved? honestly, i think the reason people are saying those things is they re in disbelief and your finger in the eye of the people who you didn t like before, anyway. this is a breakdown that can hopefully lead to a breakthrough. those young people are extraordinary. i ve been hearing marketers talk about this high school generation. they are very different than the college students. there s something happening with these young people. those young people are better spoken than most of us on television. they ve never been on television before. so if there s any hope in the country, it s in this generation that s rising. i just want to say to stand over the bodies of children and poke your finger in the eye of your a adversary is as low as you can possibly go in public life, and it s a shame the president did that but i m proud of these young people. the thing that s bad about that tweet, not only is it factually incorrect, but he takes this platform to once left wing help. i ve been to many, many high schools all around georgia talking to children, and i think when they re in an emotional state and they deserve to be heard, they deserve to be listened to, and i expressed that on the show also that i believe they re sincere. this is a horrible tragedy. their hearts are broken. but also know that the state senator from there is facilitating their bus trip up to tallahassee which, when i was in the general assembly, was illegal to do something like that, to pay for somebody to lobby. the democrat party there is doing it. you think they are being hijacked by left wing politics? i was talking about the left rally. it would shock me if 17-year-olds around the country and i agree with you, van, very articulate, very sincere. but it would shock me if they did a nationwide rally and the pro gun control left took their hands off. why does it even matter? let me just ask the question. if there is a group of people who are supporting of what they want to do, what would be wrong with them working with them if they have some knowledge about how to get their message out? what you re suggesting is somehow they ve been used like some people went in and told them what to say. which, by wathe way, there a these allegations which is just ridiculo ridiculous. i did not say that and did not say that today. i said their hearts are broken and they are sincere, i ll say that. but i can say this. as rahm emanuel famously said, don t waste a good crisis. come on, jack. they re trying to enter into politics, they re trying to change the debate that is a political debate. you cannot criticize high school us, but i don t think we re using the kids. here s the thing, it s not fair to you you re sprinkling out there that maybe these kids are illegitimate and that s wrong. those words did not come out of my mouth. we re supporting these kids here and around the country. later the president has claimed that he s done more with russia than president obama did in eight years. if yor crohn s symptoms are holding you back, and your current treatment hasn t worked well enough, it may be time for a change. ask your doctor about entyvio, the only biologic developed and approved just for uc and crohn s. entyvio works at the site of inflammation in the gi tract and is clinically proven to help many patients achieve both symptom relief and remission. infusion and serious allergic reactions can happen during or after treatment. entyvio may increase risk of infection, which can be serious. pml, a rare, serious, potentially fatal brain infection caused by a virus may be possible. this condition has not been reported with entyvio. tell your doctor if you have an infection, experience frequent infections or have flu-like symptoms or sores. 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going to do nothing. they are going to do nothing regardless of what these young people demand, because this is the issue that unites the republican party. donald trump used to be for gun control, but today maybe we ll do something about bump stocks some year. this is an issue that unites the republican party against any sort of regulation. you know, for ten years in this country, guns just like this, ar-16s ar-15. ar-15 were illegal. we still had george bush under this, but in the second amendment we have access to guns like this. that s exactly what happened in 2004 after the brady bill expired, and that s the kind of country we ever now because republican legislator was want that way. to jack s point, is it wrong that a group of students have been very vocal and very is well-spoken are contacted by gun control groups and who want to help sponsor a rally? is there anything wrong with that? of course not. jack is out there being tainted by the political parties, people who can actually organize and help them move legislation. cpac is this big conservative meeting happening in washington this week or next week. do you know how many kids are bussed in from around the country to join cpac and to talk about let me repeat this. they re not under duress of a horrible life-changing tragedy, and i would say for those kids, you got to give them a little space. their parents are fine with them being involved, and frankly, being involved helps them move into grief and try to turn grief into something positive, who are we to say how they should grieve? should they stay home and grieve and that s the only way to grieve? let me say again as i said this morning, i don t doubt their sincerity. their hearts are broken, i understand that. but i also think that sometimes when somebody goes through that that you don t want to inject politics into it immediately. let me give you a couple let me say this. this is a mass shooting. there is a shooting every few months. just pretend we re talking about guns in the wake of the las vegas shooting. did that happen long enough ago that we can talk about gun policy? because if you have this rule we re not allowed to talk about gun control what s the time, 30 days, 60 days, 100 days? the republican house in december passed a bill sponsored by richard hudson. the man s 180-day review to look at bump stocks and get rid of them if necessary. it also had to do with a background check which corwin and murphy are talking about in the senate. i want to say this because i know gun control debates fairly well having gone through many of them, but the democrats, jeffrey, had the opportunity to reinstate the assault weapons ban, and they re not really assault weapons, not according to the u.s. army. they re weapons that look like they are semiautomatic. that might be a technical term. but why did the democrats should they have? i would say they should have if that s the belief of their party. should they have? no. then what difference does it make? i m saying they didn t have the opportunity let s not talk over each other. van, what did you have to say? we have the great recession of two wars. everything you guys criticize us not doing in the 18 months we had to control the government of all the things we could sit here and argue all day long, but one of the most compelling things i heard from one of these students was, you weren t there. you don t know what it felt like. you weren t hiding under a desk or in the closet, you don t know what it felt like. if this helps them in their grieving process, let them get on a bus or train and go to tallahassee. jack, have you ever been to a pro-life rally? yes. have you ever heard a young person get up there and talk about abortion, somebody who recently has been affected by it, maybe because she had a classmate who had an abortion? no. you never heard a young person in the pro-life activist movement. no, i haven t. you ve never heard young people being involved in the pro-life movement? that s not what you asked me. you asked me if i heard a young person talk about the abortion movement. come on, you re involved in politics. we have to take another break. we re going to take a break and continue talking during the commercial break, apparently. we ll be right back. if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, or psoriatic arthritis, little things can be a big deal. that s why there s otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it s a pill that treats differently. for psoriasis, 75% clearer skin is achievable with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and for psoriatic arthritis, otezla is proven to reduce joint swelling, tenderness, and pain. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don t use if you re allergic to otezla. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. tell your doctor if these occur. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your 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people actually saw this ask saw tand saw the reali this, it would open people s eyes. we all say, oh, these children lost their lives. they didn t lose their lives, their looifives were ripped out their bodies. their brains were on the floor, their intestines were hanging out. it was sickening. we re talking about this in an a antiseptic way, but these kids are hiding in the closet while their friends are dead. and that s why the law enforcement people are standing by the young people saying, we do need to do something different. republicans are saying, these democrats, they re emotional, they re irrational, they re exploiting kids because they want to grab all of our guns. they re actually the ones being rational and sane. the kids hiding under the desks and the cops going to save them are saying the same exact thing, that it makes no sense at all for this to be the reality in america. they have a thousand excuses. and i have to say, whenever this thing happens, if it s a muslim, they want to politicize it within seconds. if iltst s a mexican, build the wall. if it s a black person, more cops and prisons. if it s a white person, it s mental health. why is it that when some people take a life, you got a thousand political ideas, and when other kinds of people take a life, you got nothing to say and you re mad that people are upset and you want them to have a cooling off period. there should not be a cooling off period for these kids. and i want to say one last thing. i do want to hear from other people. but i do feel that we have a situation where a generation is terrorized. we ve never had this for all the kids in america. some neighborhoods, yes. some racial groups, yes. you now have all the kids in america who have seen this and they re drilling on a weekly basis about how not to get their brains blown out in their classroom. this is a national tragedy. it s an emergency. and the fact that young people are standing up, everybody should stand at attention. we argued and fought because some football players wanted to kneel and beg for the killing to stop in black communities. these kids are not disrespecting any flag, they re not disrespecting any anthem. they are going down to their government and they are petitioning for redress of grievance. if anybody got on their case and said, you re too vulnerable, sit down and cry and don t say anything. this is despicable on the part of people in this country. i think republicans who can serve as good as you, first, before you say anything critical of them, defend these kids who are trying to make them seem illegitimate. i m with you on that. having not criticized the kids, i again respect their sincerity, their hearts are broken. i am concerned that there are people in our country who do hijack grief and other causes, and as rahm emanuel said, never waste a good crisis. that happens on your side. if you re disgusted with it on my side, you understand. let me give you a statistic i would like to throw out. between 1991 was the most violent year of american crime stats. from 1991 to 2014, there were 160 million firearms purchased in america. from 91 to 2014, 160 million firearms purchased, including about 15 million ar-15s. however, the violence went down. the crime stats, invithe violen stats went down 52% and the murder right went down 54%. suicides shot up, didn t they? i don t know. suicide are actually on the rise. if you have a gun, you re much more likely to kill yourself. but if the conclusion going into an argument is that ar-15s or semi-automatics or whatever are bad, you have to figure out that stat. i m willing to say, you know what, i am confident enough that you can put gun control on the table. but would you join me about hollywood balance or about video games or about social media isolation and about mental health? i think it s really important as we move forward, let s have a time for grief and then let s take action. i think after vegas, we did have some firm, solid conversations on bump stocks and nothing happened. one at a time. let her complete her thought. we don t need to jump on each other. i m with you. i m a second amendment supporter. i m a gun owner. i think every american has the right to own a gun and they should if they want to and it makes them feel safe. here s the problem. moving forward this isn t just about gun control. this is about gun violence. and to really make a difference on gun violence, we have to address how guns are purchased and how violence is provoked. there are many factors that go into that. it goes with mental health, hollywood is partially to blame. there are single-parent homes, no family homes to break down the american family. all of these need to be considered. i m sorry, i m sorry, i m sorry, i m sorry. so john wayne didn t cause violence? this is ridiculous. the idea that hollywood is causing this? we ve always had violent movies. no. this is happening because of one reason. it s the guns. it s the guns. it s the fact they have these guns and they can mass murder people. there is a direct correlation if you talk to people who study gun violence and mass murder. it s these guns that can cause whatever you want to call them and i m not going to play your game that you don t call it by the right name or whatever. when you have guns that you can mow down people, those need to be outlawed. we re so concerned about mental health. why did donald trump sign an executive order in secret, not in front of anybody, to make it easier for people with mental health problems to buy guns? why, if republicans are so concerned about mental health, why did rick scott and every other republican governor say, we don t want medicaid. we don t want to expand medicaid under obamacare. if you expand medicaid, you give people mental health services. but no, we hate obama, we hate obamacare. in florida there is no i m sorry, i have to jump in here. we have i m sorry, repeat kirschner is resisting security 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just say, badda book. badda boom. nobody glows. he gets it. always the lowest price, guaranteed. book now at choicehotels.com intrtechnology withnema. incredible color, sound and streaming. just as the creators intended. up to 40% off at dell.com breaking news tonight on the petition son-in-law who is a top adviser and apparently doesn t have top security clearance and hasn t this whole time. there was an effort recently to curb the access of such people of classified information. joining us by phone is david hirs hirschfeld. talk about for our viewers who have not heard this story, talk about what you have learned. well, john clikelly, the chi of staff, put out a memo on friday saying he would basically change the policy on security clearance in the white house. one of the things he s going to do going forward is essentially revoke the high-level clearance that folks who are currently serving in the white house have if they have not yet cleared their background check, and it s been pending for several months. he put a cutoff date of june 1st. there is some debate over whether that applies to jared kushner or not, but it s clear that because jared kushner is one of the high-level officials in the west wing and serving with an interim clearance that this is going to affect him in some way. he s been trying, as have other officials in the west wing, to figure out how this is going to affect him exactly. what we ve learned is that he is concerned that he doesn t want to have to give up his level of clearance that he has right now which allows him to see the presidential briefing and other materials, and there is sort of this quiet internal struggle going on over whether he s going to continue to have the level of access that he has enjoyed and whether others, and we don t know necessarily what their names are, are going to continue to have access to the kind of information that they have had, even though they haven t been cleared for a permanent clearance by the white house office that s in charge of doing that. i was only able to skim your story very briefly. part of what stood out to me is that you write about that general kelly has been dismi dismissive, i believe is the word you used, over jared kushner for some time, and i m wondering, a, if that is true, and b, is this a particular effort against jared kushner in some way? well, you know, general kelly would say that this memo wasn t targeted to any one person in particular, but it had been clear for many, many months that jared kushner was one of the, if not the, highest ranking official in the the west wing who, like rob porter, had an interim clearance and access to top secret information. and whether or not it s the case, jared kushner has felt like this is targeted toward him. he has been uncertain about how it s going to affect him, and it s clear that the issuance of the memo and it becoming public on friday put something of a spotlight on jared kushner because everyone knows and has known for some time, again, that he has an interim clearance. so there is a little bit of a power struggle going on. and when general kelly came in, one of the things he was trying to get a handle on was that there were a lot of officials in the west wing who had access to president trump, ready access without any kind of filter, any kind of organized crisis around that, and john kelly did. he really tried to limit that and that crimps jared kushner s access to the president, and it s been a simmering tension for some time now, and i think this has just brought that to a head. is it clear at this point why jared kushner has not been able to get a full security clearance? obviously we know he has a lot of business dealings, there have been questions raised about, you know, activities during the transition, his relationship with china, his desire to try to get financing for his company s big buildings in new york city, even during the transition. he had to amend his disclosure form several times, initially hadn t put down his multiple meetings, dozens of meetings with foreign officials during the transition, then he finally amended that, then he had to amend it again to include i think it was the june or july meeting with russian officials with donald trump jr. he neglected to put that in his amended version. do we know specifically why he doesn t have why he hasn t been cleared yet for full security clearance? we don t specifically, but all the reasons that you just laid out, particularly the omission from his original form that he submitted with all of those disclosures that were supposed to have been made in the very beginning, are a big reason. we do know that the fbi looks for out-and-out lies, they look for things that were ex cluclud that shouldn t have been excluded. he said he didn t intend to exclude anything or leave anything out. he submitted the form essentially before he was ready to submit it. but that certainly always will raise a red flag or always will raise a concern for the fbi. i asked about this in the white house briefing today, and there was a very swift pushback on the notion that there were any actual red flags, that is to say criminal or any hint of wrongdoing in jared kushner s record. but we do know that one of the major things they re looking for is anything that could subject a person to blackmail. so, of course, any sort of business dealings with a foreign power, anything that involves, you know, large sums of money and big transactions that are unexplained are going to raise issues that the fbi is going to want to look into further. julie hirschfeld davis, writer for the new york times, thank you. we re back with the panel next. everyone has a thing. that binge watch over the weekend thing. that back from the dead or robot-cowboy thing. or maybe it s watching satisfyingly-satisfying things. organic avocado on everything thing. doing it yourself or tagging a friend thing. more checking-in or checking out things. like faaaaaaaaaar out of this world things. far out. more revolutions in the making thing. that play like a girl thing. is it a 4 your eyez only, thing. more of a no role modelz thing. that triple-double thing. is he the g.o.a.t.? thing. no, not that goat thing. no no no no no no no more saving the world from the darkness thing. that selfie game strong thing. that four-legged friends thing. oo la la! at&t gives you more for your thing. more entertainment, internet, and unlimited plans. more for your thing. yeah, that s our thing. material, putting him at odds with chief of staff john kelly wanting access, even though he does not have a full security clearance. he s on a temporary security clearance and has been for the past year. anderson, isn t the problem nepotism? that s really what this is all about. jared kushner is not qualified for the job he s doing. his only qualification is that he s the president s son-in-law. he s a modestly successful real estate developer of his father s company. of his father s company, lucky sperm club, and he seems to be lucky sperm club. he seems to be losing the fortune that he was given through this disastrous investment in 666 fifth avenue, which is leading to some of these problems, because he s trying to get investors from china, from qatar, which we have foreign policy issues. but this is why presidents shouldn t appoint close relatives to be their top advisers. because they can t be treated like everybody else. he shouldn t have this job in the first place. and who knows if he should have a security clearance. it s absurd that it hasn t been resolved one way or the other. but the idea that this person is in charge of the middle east peace and the relationship with china is just absurd, putting aside the whole security clearance issue. also, the lack of structure. and we all know the lack of structure in the white house has been a problem from the beginning, about not having clearly defined roles. and clearly jared kushner and ivanka trump fit in that. what do they exactly do? on many campaigns, you have family members and friends who want to be part of the campaign. we would call them alongfortheride.comes. let them come along, but don t give them responsibility. don t let them have a huge portfolio, in charge of irani/palestinian peace and still not able to pass their security clearance. i think what s important in this article that they pointed out is that general kelly made it clear that even without availability and access to this classified information, jared is still able to carry out the duties and responsibilities of his portfolio, including dealing with the israeli/palestinian situation. i think i take general kelly s word that he can do his job without this and i think we should leave it at that. but that s crazy. that s absolutely insane. the relationship with israel and the middle east is intimately bound up with the national security agency, the cia. if you are going to be in charge of middle east peace, you have to have access to classified information. how could he possibly why do we have all of these agency ifs the person in charge of our relationship can t see it? it s ridiculous! jeff, you said that kushner is not qualified for his job. and if you start applying that standard in this white house, it s a slippery slope about where that ends, frankly. and they don t have, exactly, a large community of people to draw on who, a, want to work in this white house, or two if you bad mouth omarosa one more time i was just about to say, omarosa was an assistant to the president! i catch eed her work on big brother the other night for the first time i think she s very qualified for reality tv. i m only half joking. i think the idea of sending your son-in-law, though, there is a certain tradition that would be recognized in the middle east kazkazakhstan, all the great democracies well make america great again. equatorial guinea comes to mind. okay, saudi arabia. don t you think that s a little bit of a they just imprisoned like half the leadership but still, it s a family business. and i m just saying full of corruption and jack, this is a terrible argument. you re saying the u.s. should be more like saudi arabia?! our diplomacy should depend on the locus toms? like think about i actually think that sending your son-in-law has some symbolism that is diplomatic important in like kim jong-un sending his sister to the olympics? that makes no sense! she was not in the middle east. we should take note. we ve got to take a break. we ll be right back. dial your binge-watching up to eleven. join the un-carrier right now, and get four unlimited lines for only thirty-five bucks each. woah. plus, netflix for the whole family. on us. prrrrrrr. so, they get their shows. let s go, girl! you re gonna love this bit! and you get yours. watch however you want. on your phone, tablet, or tv. for a limited time, get 4 lines for just thirty-five bucks per line, with no extra charges. it s showtime! all on america s best unlimited network, t-mobile. with its high-tech the cameras and radar, contemporary cockpit, 360 degree network of driver-assist technologies, and sporty performance, what s most impressive about the glc? all depends on your point of view. lease the glc300 for just $449 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. was a success for lastchoicehotels.comign badda book. badda boom. this year, we re taking it up a notch. so in this commercial we see two travelers at a comfort inn with a glow around them, so people watching will be like, wow, maybe i ll glow too if i book direct at choicehotels.com . who glows? 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i am going to make the great teas deals. i do deals. i deal. i negotiate by creating leverage. so i can extract a good deal for the united states. for the people. everybody wants me to negotiate. i am so anxious to negotiate. nobody can outnegotiate these deals. i am a great deal maker. we don t make great deals anymore. but i will. we are going to win, and win and win. well, we ll see. more now on all of this from pamela brown joining us now from the white house. do we know what changed? now 24 hours later optimism from t train from the test site. the insult hurled. the north koreans now, it seems they could work with the united states. and that is why you saw that statement. they said president trump was brave for taking steps. and willing to talk with the united states at any time. north korean diplomats have re-opened. and trying to see if they can work out and make something happen. to make this summit occur on june 12th. so what happens now? what are the next steps? they can agree to have the summit. but any indication that north korea is willing to move towards the key issue which is actual denuclearization? reporter: i can tell you over many visits to this country over the last several years, they told me they will never give up their nuclear weapons. what we have seen in the recent months have been a u-turn. he has said he is willing to discuss denuclearization in exchange for what they consider hostile policy. they would like to see them all withdrawn. not happy about the american nuclear umbrella. they want the united states to take steps along with the north koreans. they don t think it as a process of a matter of months, but a longer term process. and china shares that view that it is not going to be something that happens overnight. thanks very much. perspective now from two people with long experience in the peninsula. and korea chair at the national studies. and rear admiral john kirby. does this drama, the please call me now, everything is warm and produ productive. does that lay the groundwork for an incredible summit? this whiplash, caught north koreans by surprised. they expect no u.s. president would act this way. but north koreans never wanted to cancel this meeting. the two previous statements that we were making was a protest between libya deal. libya is a nightmare scenario, but they never wanted to cancel the meeting. kim jong-un wants this meeting. their last statement that came out seven hours after trump cancelling the meeting. i have never seen such a statement before. personally praising president trump. so there is an incentive for these two leaders to meet. and i think it is going to happen. admiral kirby, i can hear supporters saying this is trump deal maker. in your experience, you were a rear admiral in the pentagon, do those tactics apply in a sensitive international discussion about nuclear weapons? i don t know if those tactics will work well once the summit happens and sitting down across from each other. nothing more complicated. you really have to know your detail. for getting ready for a summit. i think this tactic will work. he pulled a kim on kim. kim was threatening i am not going to go for the olympics. we pulled the rug out and said we are not going to come and all of a sudden, things were getting on the schedule and it could happen. but in terms of a successful summit, that is a different matter. dr. terry, you can make the summit happen if both leaders wanted. but on the issues that they are goi going to negotiate here, will north korea denuclearize by definition of denuclearize. particularly a regime that views nuclear weapons as a way of survival. as will talked about, denuclearization for north korea means something different. it has all kinds of implications for alliances with south korea, our true presence, our nuclear umbrella. we have a big gap of what we think of do yenuclearization, a what they believe it is. i don t know how we will bridge that gap. i really don t know how we will bridge the gap but up to the two leaders. we will find out soon. better for them to sit down than be threatening and shooting at each other. one official said june 12th is in minutes. summit preparation for any head of state meeting is a huge under taking and takes a lot of detail planning. even in the best of circumstances when the two heads of states are friendly, it is difficult. june 12th was ten minutes away when trump agreed. i am heartened to hear that the back channels are back in place. i suspect there wasn t that much of a gap given the kerr fluffle in the last couple of days. thanks very much. learning more about the chief white house defense lawyer at a meeting what many believe he had no business being. later, we are learning about a man called a hero and we will show you why. ooh, heaven is a place on earth uhp. i didn t believe it. again. ooh, baby, do you know what that s worth? i want to believe it. [ claps hands ] ooh i m not hearing the confidence. okay, hold the name your price tool. power of options based on your budget! and! we ll make heaven a place on earth yeah! oh, my angels! ooh, heaven is a place on earth [ sobs quietly ] desire for as much openness as possible under the law. only the staffer did not use stuff. a white house official was telling cnn jim acosta that flood and kelly s presence did not help with the concerns of being politicized. a source telling gjim acosta. we should note that a separate administration source says it was always the plan for them to leave after kelly s remarks. our two next guests, jeffre toobin and professor allen dershowitz. why is it appropriate for flood for him to be at this meeting yesterday? well if i am a defense lawyer i try to be at any meeting i am not kicked out of. their job of the defense lawyer is to find out anything he can in whatever way he can as long as it is legal and ethical and the other side is prepared to let him listen. if there is anyone to blame it is the people who let him into the meeting. rudy giuliani assumes that flood was in the meeting because the president wanted him to be. does this give the appearance that the white house is trying to abuse their authority. i don t know about abuse their authority, but this whole enterprise, this fake controversy about a spy is about one thing, it is about discrediting the mueller investigation. and potentially leading to his firing. it has nothing to do with civil liberties or with fairness. it is a splittpolitical attack mueller that flood was trying to gather information, in a way that traditionally has not been allowed. and that is the moment we are in now. this remains a political matter above all. professor dershowitz, do you agree. this is right out of the playbook that the clinton used. i played a small role in consulting with clinton s lawyers during that event. and obviously the clinton s approach was two fold. one, to try to use legal means to prevent what is happening from happening and to discredit starr. and if it ever went to impeachment, to make it a blue reddi /red issue. you are right, they tried to fight back by legal means. you are right that they tried to make it a political controversy. what the clinton people did not do is invent lies. this president saying there was a spy and this is worse than watergate. the level of lies that trump has used in this effort to attack mueller is a quantum difference than what the clintons did. and it is important to preserve that tradition. let s start with spy. all civil libertarians should be concerns. an anti war movement, the martin luther king campaign. we all complained civil libertarians. i cover intelligence and national security, there was no person in the campaign, confidential the russians offering dirt on hillary clinton to them an informant had a conversation with them. jeffrey, to your knowledge, is that a fair equation that the professor is making here between past examples of the fbi, you know, putting spies inside antiwar movement, et cetera. allen, it is wonderful to talk about the abuses of power of martin luther king, and the anti war movement, it has nothing to do with what happened here. they tried to get martin luther king to kill himself. and here, there were a couple of conversations between george pop do dop louse and this confidential informer. but to call this as the president has worst than watergate is preposterous and it is our job to call it out. i agree with you. it is nowhere near watergate. but it is also not nothing. i have no problem with at least inquiring. i think trump overstates it when he says it is worst than watergate, and that is what presidents and presidential campaigns and people who are being investigated do. you are normalizing trump s behavior and it is not the same on what other president s do. i am criticizing his behavior. i as a civil libertarians has a right to be concerned jeff, fair to have that public inquiry? absolutely not. there is a tradition and a rule within the justice department that they do not disclose the witnesses or investigative techniques about pending investigations. this is an active case and what rod rosenstein has done to try to protect his job in a way to try to protect mueller s job is to bend the rules and give the house republicans and give the president access to information that they have no right to. and this i don t agree with that. at this stage in the investigation, absolutely not. and this is why. i don t agree with that. i know you don t agree with it. this is an example of how they are using their political power to get things they are entitled to. fantastic discussion between professor and student. happy holiday to everybody. thanks very much. david axelrod has a great panel on. sally yates is going to be his guest and here is a preview. what do you make of the president s demand of the justice department that they investigate the investigation of that involves his campaign and perhaps him? this has taken the assault on the rule of law to a new level. president trump has not observed the time honored norm to be in place at least since watergate that there should be a division between the department of justice and the white house. and it is not just directing a criminal investigation or to stop one of anyone. it directly relates to his campaign. that is truly unprecedented. you can see the entire conversation on the ax files saturday 7:00 p.m. eastern time. coming up about a russian oligarch who met with president s personal attorney. when we continue details of that meeting as well as implications. oligarch showed up at trump tower to meet with michael cohen 11 days before the inauguration. that was three days after then fbi director james comey came. his company then paid cohen. shimon joins me now. yet another meeting in trump tower tied. what are you learning now why this meeting took place. folks say this was what is not clear is why victor vekselberg would didn t have any say as far as we know in the transition or any policy that the president was going to institute. what is interesting about this meeting is it lasted about 30 minutes. we are told a quick meeting. came in and spoke with michael cohen and went up to his office and then left. also, just days before the meeting, andrew intrater donated money. it was sometime after this meeting that his company hired michael cohen for his work. you mentioned michael cohen didn t have a formal role, and was not part of the transition team. are the people who took part in this meeting, these russians, are they cooperating in the investigation? we know that both have been questioned. and victor vekselberg was the man who came to new york was met by fbi agents. they took his electronics and there was some questioning of him. he hasn t been cooperating with the fbi. he has been sanctioned. and the sanction came after the meeting with the fbi with the mueller team. andrew intrater has also been questioned by the fbi. and he answered some of those questions. people say he has been cooperative. but overall, what is important is that you yet have another russian, vekselberg specifically, close ties with putin. and is now scrutinizing. thanks very much. joining me now is jennifer rogers, and norm eisen. is this an optics problem? or do you see legal issues here? we don t know yet what the answers to the questions are. but there are profound legal and ethical and national security questions that surround thkpoor pattern. and we know that an american company associated with vekselberg columbus nova pays hundreds of thousands of dollars to michael cohen. so there could be serious issues. possible quid pro questions. one thing we can be confident of is federal prosecutors are on the case and looking into it. and we will get answers. but troubling. whenever one of these meetings come up, we should remind people when there were first reports, they were denied, any meetings whatsoever. jen, on the points of payments, they deny that any payments came to cohen directly to vekselberg, if that is true, does that limit his exposure. i imagine payments could be funneled to him. is that a buffer there? well, we will see. originally when the news came out about columbus nova, they said vekselberg had nothing to do with it. and there is still a lot to look into about whether vekselberg was involved and to what extent. but a potential problem. something that comes up is something known as the foreign registration act. if you work for a foreign agency, you would volunteer that register that. how does that relate to the laws? well, in order to be guilty of the farra. if it actually is him lobbying on behalf of vekselberg, and it has to do with something. he has to say let me represent your case. and if he is lobbying without registering that is a violation. not working for the transition at the time. and is not worked for the u.s. government of course he has a close relationship with the sitting president of the united states. does that insulate the administration? it depends on what context he had with the administration. what access he had to the president or those around him. and what deals he did or did not strike with them. whether there is any quid pro quos. and it will depend on the evidence. there is some reason to ask hard questions. why did this vekselberg linked company, vekselberg entity is the largest client of this american company. suddenly in the presidential transition agree to a million dollar contract with michael cohen? was his expertise suddenly more valuable because of as they say investment advice? i don t think so. so it is fair to ask these hard questions. ambassador eisen, jen rogers, thanks for taking the time with us. it s absolute confidence in 30,000 precision parts. or it isn t. it s inspected by mercedes-benz factory-trained technicians. or it isn t. it s backed by an unlimited mileage warranty, or it isn t. for those who never settle, it s either mercedes-benz certified pre-owned, or it isn t. the mercedes-benz certified pre-owned sales event. now through may 31st. only at your authorized mercedes-benz dealer. it s dead again. i need a new phone. and you deserve that new phone on the best network. verizon. oh, we re going? sure ehh, not my thing. (vo) now get up to 50% off our best phones. like the samsung galaxy s9 and google pixel 2. only on verizon. come hok., babe. nasty nighttime heartburn? try new alka-seltzer pm gummies. the only fast, powerful heartburn relief plus melatonin so you can fall asleep quickly. oh, what a relief it is! campaign. and russian lawyer turned away because some lawmakers thought it was inappropriate. in other words a typical week in the white house, typical week in washington. i am joined now by maggie he s haberman. the meeting was off. and in a nuclear dear john letter. call me, if you want to talk again. and reminding him we have a big arsenal. this is similar to the approach he has taken with a lot of world leaders and a lot of people who have been if not adversarial to the u.s. there was something about that letter almost what you would have seen real estate developer trump sending to a zoning board. he does want this summit to happen. he did indeed cancel because he didn t want to be canceled on. this meeting would still happen. he still sees this as an attainable goal and in his mind, it is the ultimate deal in contrast to middle east peace. and that it is something that will make his critics praise him which at the end of the day validation he is seeking. often what happens with trump in these negotiations is it looks like a lot of activity but nothing has changed. does he want the summit or a successful negotiation. he wants a successful negotiation. difference are standards are going to be tested. and i am not sure how he defined a successful effort. and is it, i think a lot of folks at home might be wondering the same question, is it part of a strategy? is there a plan or is it reactive? trump playing trump here to some degree? there isn t usually a plan. it is a lot of tactics but not a grand map. a lot of this is playing off of whatever is playing in front of him. when says we ll see what happens, it is a filler. what you see is what is there. and that is the case here. so we had, on another issue, another case where the white house initial story turns out not to be accurate. deals with john kelly, and emmett flood showing up on this classified briefing. and the white house said yesterday, listen, they were always going to leave after making an initial statement. cnn reporting they might have wanted to say. i don t have that confirmed on my own, but it is not surprising. this is exactly the type of, you know, pushing of the lines or trying to erase the lines. what we have seen this white house do. particularly into the investigation of this president or campaign. and this is the latest in the series. i heard from a lot of people on the congress side or legal side how inappropriate it would be to have emmett flood in particular there, not good to have john kelly there either. but the kind of intermingling that we saw the other day. again, with this president, he will constantly push to see how far he can reset the limit and if people don t stop him, he will go through. it will happen again. thanks very much. coming up, the latest from hawaii where the lava is causing severe danger. hearing from a man who protected homes with little than a garden hose until he got hit with a lava bomb. spray relieves 6 symptoms. claritin-d relieves 8, including sinus congestion and pressure. claritin-d relieves more. . . . if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, little things can be a big deal. that s why there s otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it s a pill that treats psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months, . with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don t use if you re allergic to otezla. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. tell your doctor if these occur. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. other side effects include upper respiratory tract infection and headache. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if you re pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you. feet in the air, people, of course, being encouraged to stay away from areas where lava is entering the pacific ocean. by now you probably heard about a man severely injured by what is called a lava bomb. darryl clinton lucky to be alive. cnn scott mclean has the story. reporter: it is a beautiful place, a place that feels very alive. it was two decades ago that steve hill found his slice of hawaiian paradise and two weeks ago he came to grips with losing it. you left this place fully expecting not to come home to it. lost, lost, lost. reporter: hill an his wife packed up their furniture and left for the main land. he even left a shot of gin on the deck for pele, the hawaiian volcano goddess, assuming the gin and his home would be swallowed up. we left feeling heartbroken. reporter: his contractor and close friend darryl clinton had other ideas. might want to step back on this one. reporter: just one week ago, cnn was with clinton while he was defending hill s homes against flying chunks of molten lava. windows had already been destroyed, so had the walter catchment tank. some lava bombs even came crashing through the roof. armed with little more than a garden ho gua garden hose, he doused the house. these flaming ones are the ones that catch the ceiling on fire. reporter: the 24/7 task was difficult and even more dangerous. after almost a week, hill told clinton to leave and let the houses burn. can t do this. this is unsafe. it is time to stop. valiant effort. i m humbled by how hard you ve tried. reporter: but clinton didn t leave until the next day, and it wasn t by choice. a line-drive lava bomb broke his leg, severed an artery and nearly took his foot off. took my leg out and threw me against the wall. it was the most extreme force i felt in my life. reporter: the extreme heat burned up the deck, the wall and almost an entire dining set, but thanks to a fast-acting neighbor with a water jug, the house survived and so did darryl. reporter: you are blessed with neighbors like that. hill returned to hawaii to find his homes and friend who helped build them badly in need of repairs. when darryl is done rebuilding himself, we will get on to rebuilding houses. reporter: he is a journeyman? he is a beautiful person. reporter: in a place where lava insurance is too costly to be common, hill knows saying thank you is not enough. this place stands because darryl chose not to go home. it stands because he believed that he could save it. i mean that s it. that is one survivor s story. scott mclean joins me from hawaii. i understand darryl clinton is still in the hospital, but how is he doing? reporter: hey, jim. darryl clinton has a rod in his leg. he has had at least three surgeries and right now he is in honolulu for another one. he has a long road ahead of him but he has support. his friend steve hill says he will do whatever he can to get darryl back on his feet. there s also been a gofundme page that has raised more than $3,000 towards his recovery. reporter: those pictures other worldly. from hawaii, thank you very much. coming up tonight, every last zig and zag in the crazy, convoluted road perhaps to a north korea/u.s. summit. the meeting cancelled yesterday seems to be rising from the dead. the question remaining is what will it be and what if it doesn t happen. one second. barely enough time for this man to take a bite of turkey. but for cyber criminals it s plenty of time to launch thousands of attacks. luckily security analysts and watson are on his side. spotting threats faster and protecting his data with the most securely encrypted main frame in the world. it s a smart way to eat lunch in peace. sweet, oblivious peace. it s a smart way to eat lunch in peace. still nervous [about buying a house? 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that s all the time we have. i hand it over to don lemon. 360 will be back tomorrow. this is cnn tonight. i m don lemon. the magnitude of this day is unbelievable. it is historic. it is a moment when our country is on the brink. on the brink of what could turn into a constitutional crisis and potentially on the brink of military acts in syria. a furious president trump surrounded by grim-faced military leaders in what was planned to be a meeting of syria, his arms folded, blasted the fbi raid today on his personal attorney michael cohen. i just heard that they broke into the office of one of my personal attorneys, good man, and it s a disgraceful situation. it s a total witch hunt. i ve been saying it for a long time. i ve wanted to keep it down. we ve given, i believe, over a million pages worth of documents to the special counsel. so let me be absolutely clear about this. the president is absolutely wrong. nobody broke into michael cohen s office. and nobody, not even the president, is above the law. a dozen fbi agents armed with search warrants legally seized documents from cohen s office, his hotel room, and reportedly his home. a source telling cnn those documents are related to stormy daniels. another source telling cnn the search warrant was very broad and included bank records. but ominously, president trump views this as an attack on him and on the country. sources telling cnn tonight that the cohen raid sent the president over the edge, because his attorney is like a surrogate family member. it s a disgrace. it s frankly a real disgrace. it s an attack on our country and it s an attack on what we all stand for. so when i saw this and when i heard it, i heard it like you did. i said, that is really now on a whole new level of unfairness. so he believes it s unfair and it s an attack on him. and he believes it s politically motivated. never mind that these are the facts. it s his own hand-picked deputy attorney general overseeing the mueller investigation. and today s raid was authorized by the u.s. attorney in manhattan who was hand-picked by guess who? president trump. they found no collusion whatsoever with russia. the reason they found it is there was no collusion at all. no collusion. this is the most biased group of people. these people have the biggest conflicts of interest i ve ever seen. democrats all, just about all, the democrats are a couple republicans that worked for president obama. do you see the body language there? the mueller investigation is not over. so the president is wrong, wrong when he claims they found no collusion. and the fact is, robert mueller is a republican. but sources warn the president s anger could lead to him firing mueller. why don t i just fire mueller? yes, fire the guy. well, i think it s a disgrace what s going on. we ll see what happens, but i think it s a really sad situation when you look at what happened. many people have said, you should fire him. again, they found nothing. and in finding nothing, that s a big statement. remember the investigation is not over yet. they haven t found nothing. and it s not just mueller who could be on the president s austin, you heard the president. he is angry. cnn is reporting the raids on michael cohen s office, reporting a raid on one of his homes as well. at least a dozen fbi agents involved. this is aggressive. it s aggressive, but i think we need to be clear about what was going on here. this would have been executed pursuant to a search warrant, which means that the fbi obtained permission from a judge to enter these facilities. they would have had to show probable cause that in these locations and in specified places, documents, devices, they were going to find evidence of a crime. and a judge would have had to agree to that in order for them to do it. this was i think calling it a break-in is really characterizing this as something that it s not. and the crimes here apparently are related to bank fraud, which is obtaining money through illegal means from a financial institution, and potentially campaign finance violations, likely contributions that would have been disclosed as required by law. let s talk a little more about that, because our gloria borger is reporting that the search warrant was related to stormy daniels, and search warrant was very broad in terms of items sought and the search included bank records. why do a raid like this instead of calling up michael cohen s attorney and saying, we need you to turn everything over? i think there is a false assumption that everything is handled, when you re talking about courts of law with gentlemen s agreements saying, why don t you fight this in a court of law? they may not be comprehensively giving you everything you need, so you have the right to get a search warrant, especially since there could be something fleetingly going away, like certain documents. don t confuse the two investigations. this was a referral by special counsel mueller handed over to an independent u.s. attorney who is of manhattan, somebody who was chosen by the president. the president actually had a hand of interviewing, much to the chagrin of many people, who replaced the people he fired just last year. the reason that s significant here is that there is an illusion that somehow mueller has been orchestrating this entire thing. what happened is a referral meaning, i may have seen something. this may interest you. it is not within my particular mandate. if you would like to, or you feel so desired to do so, please investigate it. it was not a mandate for the sdny u.s. attorney to do anything about it. it showed an exercise of prosecutorial discretion, and backed up by more than just mueller. a magistrate and the sdny attorney. so the president has conflated the term to be a witch hunt to include these two things that are quite distinct. quick question before i go to michael. the attorney-client privilege, does it apply here or not apply here, laura? we have to see, because every communication between michael cohen and donald trump did not necessarily fall under privilege. it would have to be counsel sought him on legal advice. if someone was in the room on a communication, cc in some way, it would not apply. and if the communication between the attorney and the client was somehow in furtherance of a crime, then poof, it goes away, would not be honored. this is not up to mueller, this is up to a court of law to decide. michael, you ve worked with mueller, correct? yeah. i ve got a couple questions for you here. the first one is why would the southern district of new york be investigating or looking into possible election crimes? because it s a crime to willfully violate the federal election laws. and they were given a referral, it appears, from mueller to say that this may be ongoing and worth your inquiry. we don t know also, though, whether or not this pre exists mueller s investigation. it could well be that the stormy daniels aspect of this is one aspect. there may be other women similarly situated or other people similarly situated that the investigation was ongoing, just like we had in flynn, where it was ongoing when mueller stepped into it. he found something additional. it was related. he passed it on. the rule of law was upheld and the process was adhered to. and so that s what prosecutors do. they look at crime and make prosecutorial decisions about whether it s worth prosecuting. and mueller can t if he finds something that looks like a crime or something unusual, he just can t ignore it, right? that s right. and if the reporting is accurate and it s early and we have to be very careful to not be, you know, too far ahead of ourselves, but if mueller came across something he thought needed a criminal investigation and worthy of inquiry and it s outside his mandate, then he is to go to rosenstein. rosenstein then makes the decision whether to leave it with mueller and expand the mandate, or take other action as appropriate. it appears from the reporting that he felt other action is appropriate, was the appropriate step to take, and he gave it to new york. then what laura said, because she said don t conflate or confuse the two. these are different investigations. this raid was actually referred, as we said, by mueller to the deputy attorney general rod rosenstein. then on top of that was authorized by the u.s. attorney in manhattan, jeffrey or jeff b b berman, who is the president s own pick for that office. so the idea that this is a witch hunt just seems ridiculous. if you look at the deciding officials that would be involved in a case like this, and you have to remember, don, that when you go into an attorney s office, it really requires permissions at the highest level. so you probably had christopher wray, the head of the fbi, rod rosenstein, the acting attorney general. the interim u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, berman, and the head of the criminal division in the main justice department, all of whom are seasoned lawyers, all of them happen to be republicans, which i think is irrelevant, but the notion that that crew would somehow conspire to engage in a witch hunt against the president s lawyer for allegations of campaign finance violations doesn t hold true to me. i agree that it s relevant, but i think it s important to point out that the president keeps saying it s a witch hunt, it s the democrats, why aren t you looking at hillary clinton or barack obama, when these are his own hand-picked people. i don t know who is better to answer this, if it s osha or if it s laura. the reason i ask why didn t the federal government investigate this, would that be the eeoc? is that laura? i ll jump in, mike. it s true it is the fbc. the notion that the fbc has been a toothless dog when it comes to a lot of these cases, because you have to have the majority rule but also have to be unanimous issues about these very issues, about campaign finance, et cetera. even when they had the opportunity like the john edwards case to look at these examples of what may be campaign contributions, this counsel don mcgann was on the committee and he said, let s not go ahead and prosecute this the same way, although it ended up having an acquittal and hung jury. the fact that you have these kids being wrang he would by the fbi or the fbc could be because they ve been a notable toothless dog in some ways. she can speak all of next segment. the justice department and the fec have concurrent jurisdiction in matters such as this. the fec does the civil side of it, the u.s. attorneys does the criminal side of it. they both have concurrent jurisdictions, one criminal, one civil. osha, he keeps saying this was a break-in. these are anything but unlawful. this was anything but unlawful. this was a break-in raid, correct? this was pursuant to a search warrant. one thing going off what laura said that the president needs to understand is that this is happening. the fact this has referred to was beyond mueller. it s not going to stop the investigations. it s not going to stop the investigations coming out of other offices across the country. if mueller goes himself, the same thing will happen when he fired comey. these are now in the criminal justice system. judges have seen the evidence. search warrants have been issued. grand juries have been on it, indictments have been done. i think he is sorely mistaken if he thinks that getting rid of mueller will stop anything that s already been started in our justice system. she has spoken. don t go away. we have much more to come on the raid. the break-in of michael cohen couldn t have come at a worst time when the trump team is coming up empty. lincoln mkx, more horsepower than the lexus rx350 and a quiet interior from which to admire them. the lincoln spring sales event is here. for a limited time get zero percent apr on the lincoln mkx. hurry in today to your lincoln dealer. in birds eye protein blends. ok. they re delicious side dishes with the protein of beans, whole grains. .and veggies! mmm, good. my work here is dooooone! bird s eye protein blends. so veggie good. janice, mom told me you bought a house. okay. [ buttons clicking ] [ camera shutter clicks ] so, now that you have a house, you can use homequote explorer. quiet. i m blasting my quads. janice, look. i m in a meeting. -janice, look. -[ chuckles ] -look, look. -i m looking. it s easy. you just answer some simple questions online, and you get coverage options to choose from. you re ruining my workout. cycling is my passion. you re ruining my workout. with expedia you could book a flight, hotel, car and activity all in one place. his anger tonight over the fbi raid of his attorney michael cohen. anger, sources fear, could push him over the edge. osha, let me ask you, maggie hagen reported tonight in the new york times and she tweeted, trump is angrier than he s ever been, including the two news cycles. what that translates to is unclear, but mboth trump and cohen believe this is really mueller and that farming it out to sdny was a figure leaf. both sources say that this has crossed the red line that trump laid out for mueller going outside his purview. has he crossed the line? we need to understand that when mueller has an appointment with rosenstein, he has a subject kind of scoped. if he encounters something that s beyond the scope, he doesn t just shrug his shoulders and walk away. what if he discovers a human trafficking ring or pornography? does he say, oh, that s beyond my scope, carry on! no. the department of justice is required by law to investigate any evidence of criminal activity. so it will be passed on, as it was in this case. what this tells me is that rosenstein is actually taking his oversight responsibilities very seriously. he s not allowing mueller to continue something that might be very far outside his scope, not letting him cross that red line. instead he is allowing the regular prosecutors in the appropriate offices of the department of justice go along with this. and again, in this case it s a u.s. attorney that was interviewed by trump himself. so, again, as i mentioned before, he will be disappointed if he believes that getting rid of mueller or rosenstein or sessions is in any way going to stop this ball from rolling. this is coming at a time when the president s legal team is really diminished, and some say frankly they are outgunned by mueller s team. is that the way you see it, laura? i see the time ing is very curious given last week the president looking to sit down with mueller and his professional team. yet again you have someone conflating two issues, most likely investigations, with the hope that if you undermine the credibility of the investigation, it will give the president of the united states political cover to possibly say either he won t voluntarily sit down with that team per advice of counsel, or he ll be subpoenaed by mueller and his team and will be able to plead the fifth and say, it s not political suicide here. what i m doing is not going to answer questions in a witch hunt because we know that mueller is farming things out for fig leaf purposes as well. i think the fact he had his diminishing legal team is only going to exacerbate the president s narrative that for him to feel he has cover that mueller is run ning a witch hun and he s trying to hoodwink the entire american public, none of which have played out in the facts. so it was told to lou dobbs that he wants to consider impeachment. and the grounds for impeachment is following the law? it s not really a sensible position. what rod rosenstein did is what he swore under oath to do, which is uphold the law, as did christopher wray. the base of it, it appears, is they don t like how they re exercising their constitutional obligations because it is pillaring someone that they like politically. that s not what impeachment is about. that doesn t meet any one standard of definition of a high-crime misdemeanor style abuse of office, so i think it s rhetorically sort of convenient but not practically doable. what kind of charges can come from all of this? go on. i was just going to point out that increasingly, the deep state is consisting almost entirely of republicans, which is very odd. and i think that should be a clue that the only deep state that exists right now is the deep state of denial in the white house and among his lawyers that this is getting very bad for them. and he needs to get better legal advice on how to handle it, including potentially not talking about obstruction of justice on television like he did today. michael, what did you want to say? i m agreeing with asha for sure. i think the whole criminal justice system works best when each side is well represented. i think it behooves the president so take a step back, find a competent team so they can address the issues that are raised in a prudent, lawful and sober way, and i think we ll all be advantaged by that. there is no good in having a president without representation adequate to those who are looking into allegations of wrongdoing. i just hope he steps back, finds good counsel, lets them build a team for him, let them meet with mueller and make a forward path sobek get this resolved and behind us, whatever that is. hey, laura, two things if you can answer quickly. what kind of charges might stem from this? from michael cohen, you re looking at possibly bank fraud or tax-related issues, perhaps campaign finance issues. the president doesn t seem to have an exact link to this yet so i can t state what charges will be brought against him or anyone else. you talked about these kinds of cases, attorney-client privilege, can be waived. has this come up before? the notion of a waiver bwoul be different. that s saying i do not want my client to be held to that amount of silence. it will not protect communications. if they re made to forward a crime or hide criminal activity. also the notion that it can only exist if it was between the attorney and client. not outside entourages, not third parties who are around, not anybody who was bc d or cc d around it. just one on one, no one else around in furtherance of legal advice, they ll be protected. if it s about business or anything else could he talk to michael cohen now and it would be privileged? he could talk about issues, but i suspect there is a cone of silence they ll want to put between him and michael cohen at this point in time, because he had a great degree of exposure, and the president wants to have a 10-foot pole between them who he calls a good man. when we come back, it s like 1998 all over again. remember bill clinton and monica lewinsky? are we seeing a much bigger sex scandal that will rock this white house? 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this is about mueller s investigation. that s disingenuous, don, let s be honest. your show and this network for months and months have screamed russia, russia, russia. guess what? there s nothing there that connects to president trump. how do you know? are you part of the investigation? how do you know that? no, no, no, no, no. how do you know that? are you part of this investigation? no, because if you take 20 lawyers, biased lawyers who hate the president, tens of millions of dollars, the full investigatory power of the united states government and you can t find anything after a year of having been investigating the people who are running this investigation were hand-picked by the president of the united states, skand many o the people who are running this investigation or part of this investigation are also republicans. how did all of a sudden robert mueller, who is beloved by the right wing and donald trump and everyone, all of a sudden become a pariah because he s all of a sudden doing his job? being a republican hardly means you re in favor of president trump. he says it s a witch hunt by the democrats, and he says most of the people on the team are either democrats or have donated to democratic entities. they re republicans who can t stand the president, and by the way, i think the republicans sadly are as complicit in what s going on now in terms of these swamp tactics as the democrats are. let me just be very blunt. the president needs to fire jeff sessions. he needs to fire rosenstein. he needs to fire mueller. this is a sham investigation. this is his own justice department trying to usurp the power of the presidency. if the congress wants to investigate this, they re a co-equal branch, go at it. but his own justice department if he s innocent, why would he fire those people? it s not about innocence. it s because they re creating a witch hunt atmosphere that s really, in many ways, i think reminiscent of what we see in dictatorships. when you raid the president of the united states private attorneys, residents and offices, and when you say we re going to pierce attorney-client privilege, what you re admitting here is we have nothing on russia, nothing significant, nothing we can hang our hat on, but we are going to find a way or make a way to impeach the president of the united states. let s just be honest. that is the end goal here. that is the goal of the washington swamp. it s the goal of the media, is to impeach the president. and the president has to say enough. we have business in this country to attend to. that s quite a tale you weave there, but go on. it s quite a tale and it happens to be the truth. it s why the president needs to take action. let somebody else talk. go ahead, dana. are we done now? we re hardly done. i m one of those true republicans that can t stand this president because he has hijacked the republican party, and he has hijacked democracy. that being said, frankly, don, the trump apologist has sidetracked so much, i kind of forgot your question. can you refresh my memory? i said the president has called the raid of cohen an attack on our country and an attack on all that we stand for. is that appropriate? yes, it s appropriate, and i m going to tell you why. one of the things that differentiates the united states of america from many other countries, including dictatorships, is that in this country nobody, nobody, not the president do you think it s appropriate to call it an attack on our country? no, i think it s appropriate for michael cohen to be investigated and to be raided. because in the united states of america, one of the things that distinguishes us from many other countries is that in this country, nobody, not the president of the united states or his minions or his personal lawyer or whomever, is above the law. they are all subject to the law, and they all need to behave legally. so i do think it is appropriate for him to be raided. look, follow the trail. follow the money trail. i mean you know, i actually marvel at the fact that donald trump has gotten as far as he has gotten with his limited intellectual curiosity, vocabulary of about a four-year-old, and the worst damn lawyer that any of us have ever seen. this guy couldn t even get an mba executed. dana, you ve been demeaning the president in this manner for so long. he went to an ivy league school and he s a self-made billionaire. i wish i were that dumb, i don t know about you. let s get to point about our democracy are you going to answer the question or continue to pivot. it takes time and we only have one segment. because you really talk and talk and talk, and steve, make your point. i m trying to. i m trying to. so at this point there s three of us in this panel. you spoke all you wanted to without any of us interrupting. i now spoke and it s charles turn. he answers to no one which is why he needs the truth. a lot of people try to downplay the whole stormy daniels story. they re saying, oh, this is about an affair. we know it s not about an affair he had years ago. this is possibly breaking lawsuit, campaign finance, breaking election laws, and that s what it appears this may have come down to. wouldn t that be incredibly ironic if this piece of it becomes the thing, becomes the biggest thorn in his side? around that story has always been just an incredible amount of smoke. what did cohen tell his bank when he was getting the loan? he said he got a loan, i guess, a second mortgagor something. what do you tell them? you can t lie to them and say it s for one thing if it s for another. why did the detectors and they reported it, did the president know about the agreement which he says now he did not know about it. did he know about the payment? did the president pay him back? would he ever ask the president to pay him back? there s a lot of smoke and mirrors on this, and the easiest way not to get in trouble is telling the truth. i don t know yet if they have told that truth, but something about their activity around this caught the eye of mueller and his investigators. they referred it to another group of fbi investigators, attorneys of new york. they went to a judge. a judge evaluated what they brought to them, and he said, it looks like this warrants the search warrant. so something there is tripping a lot of triggers. and there are six major things that you have to attain in order to get before obtaining a search warrant, investigators had to obtain the evidence. the warrant had to come from an assistant attorney general or the attorney general. he had to confer with the department of justice before receiving it. privileged communications between cohen and his science. a clean team, including lawyers and agents not working on the case. we must ensure that the. researchers had to develop a review process for the seized material. that s a. it s a lot of hoots, but don, i want to know, what happened to russia? where did russia a go. i know we re krumplged for time, but this is an important conversation. as i said from the very beginning when you started to talk, these are two. . tell trump not to pleat up with porn stars, and he s married, and drop his trousers. okay, guys. i got to go. i gotta go. if you don t want that to come out, don t say it. remind me of the question, don? we ll be right back. & to personalize their treatment, imagine what we can do for the conditions that affect us all. imagine what we can do for you. an angry president trump during a meeting to talk about syria going off on the fbi raids of his attorney michael to hen. two huge stories that could get much, much bigger. i m talking to nicholas kristof, writer for the new york times. what doou you think about this? we have two separate investigations related to the conduct of the president. it s unbelievable. i guess i do worry that the president s reaction clearly he s so viscerally angry. it does raise the risk of the mueller investigation, whether he replaces sessions or he s clearly angry about this. and many trump supporters and his spokespeople are conflating the two investigations into one. this is not robert mueller s investigation. no, there is a referral, but this is a separate investigation, and it s also important to note that even if mueller is ousted that the southern district of new york investigation will continue. so these are you know, this is an incredible moment when we have two separate federal investigations of criminal behavior. and again, he called this an attack on our country, an attack for all that we stand for. but even while all of this is going on, i want to talk about what s happening now. i want to talk about what s going to happen with syria. it may be more likely to happen in syria because of the events today. do you think it s a wag the dog situation? i don t know, but i do i think that it was likely this was going to happen, anyway. i think it s almost 100% certain that it s going to happen now after this. you heard the president say today, talk about the timing, he said u.s. would be withdrawing from syria soon, remember. john mccain is basically he s blaming those words at least for the chemical attack. here s what he said in a statement. he said, president trump last week signalled to the world that the united states would prematurely withdraw from syria. bashar assad and his russian and iranian backers have heard him and emboldened by american inaction, assad has reportedly launched another chemical attack against innocent men, women and children, this time in douma. is he right? was assad emboldened by president trump s words? it s a little harsh and i don t think it s fair to blame president trump for the use of chemical weapons. that s on president assad, that s on iran and that s on russia. but it is true that assad has repeatedly used chemical weapons back since 2012 because the international community, in part represented first by president obama, most recently by president trump, has kotolerate it. a year ago president trump fired 69 cruise missiles at a million dollars each into the ground. that was a one-off event that didn t change the calculations of assad. and from that point of view, mccain is right that trump did not stand up to it, that when he talks about pulling troops out of syria that that, i think, does make assad a little more likely to think, yeah, he can do whatever it takes to win in that area of eastern bouta. this is the end of the t tomahawk missiles you re talking about. there was an attack on 80 people. 48 people died saturday in douma. president trump called putin out by name for backing animal assad. why do you think the president is calling putin out now? i don t call the president reprehensible for not calling him out. i was glad he called him out now. but it sure does look like he is going to fire missiles at syria, but the problem is, does he have any military force is important when it s harnessed to some sort of broader vision, when it s harnessed to a strategy. i don t see what that strategy is in the case of syria. i don t see what that gives us leverage to do. this is a really dangerous moment in syria with the israeli strikes apparently having killed four iranians. we re really concerned whether there will be another israel-lebanon war. i don t have confidence in president trump using his military toolbox in ways that will avoid problems with russia and with iran, and in ways that will actually advance syrian interests and our interests and global interests on the ground there. we ll know what s going to happen soon. the president indicated today as well that we will know. i think it s coming. thank you, nicholas. appreciate it. when we come back, evidence that scott pruitt lied about controversial raises given to friends who controversial pay raises. what can you tell us? what do you know. as you mentioned, last week i reported that scott pruitt had signed off on two really hefty pay raises for two of his staffers back from oklahoma. what was controversial, though, was not so much the raises themselves which, yes, were quite large, but the white house refused to sign off on these. when that happened, pruitt ordered his aides to sir cup ve circumvent the process. and then they interviewed pruitt and he denied any knowledge. what i can report today though is that an e-mail is currently circulating the agency which n which sarah greenwall, one of the aids who received the raises said pruitt was in fact the one to sign off on these. i have two administration official whose have seen the e-mail confirming that to me. what s happening right now, don, is epa officials know there s an investigation into these raise says so they re trying to corral all the relevant materials that may appear to contradict what pruitt said in his fox news interview. this one is troubling them the most, though, because it s not really something they can explain away. let me ask you this, because you re saying there s an e-mail floating around. it s not from pruitt. the epa spokesman said there no evidence in the e-mail that pruitt knew about the pay raises or that he even saw the e-mails. that is correct? what the e-mail says, it s sarah green wawall telling hr t c confirm that her raises have been processed and she says the adm administrator approved these raises. the statement i got in my professional opinion seemed to indicate they were confirming that fact but not that it was correct necessarily. now it s almost like they re throwing the onus on her to explain that she was in fact wrong for saying that. great reporting. we appreciate your time. when we come back, the president is angry about the fbi raids on michael cohen. is he going to do anything about it. why don t i just fire mueller? well, i think it s a disgrace what s going on. we ll see what happens. we ll see what happens. wonder what he means by that. a family of seven technology leaders working behind the scenes to make the impossible. reality. we re helping to give cars the power to read your mind from anywhere. and we re helping up to 40% of the nation s donated blood supply to be redirected to the people that need it most. magic can t make digital transformation happen. but we can. do ndo not misjudgenity quiet tranquility. with the power of 335 turbo-charged horses lincoln mkx, more horsepower than the lexus rx350 and a quiet interior from which to admire them. the lincoln spring sales event is here. for a limited time get zero percent apr on the lincoln mkx. hurry in today to your lincoln dealer. i knew at that exact moment . i m beating this. my main focus was to find a team of doctors. it s not just picking a surgeon, it s picking the care team and feeling secure in where you are. visit cancercenter.com/breast introducing walit s a great days. for a great deal! tender, center-cut sirloin or chicken on the barbie, fries, a draft beer or a coke, all for just $9.99. only for a limited time. so don t walk, run to outback. well, lik-oh!st of you, i j-very nice.a house. now i m turning into my dad. i text in full sentences. i refer to every child as chief. this hat was free. what am i supposed to do, not wear it? 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A look at breaking news, politics and reports from around the world. guiliani described the supposed meeting, then said it never happened. and he once again reiterated the president knew nothing about the meeting in advance. tonight, rudy guiliani seems to be muddying the waters about what meetings may have taken place before the now controversial june 2016 sit down between donald trump jr. and the russians. guiliani brought up for the first time another meeting without the president three days before the russians met at trump tower. guiliani claims reporters have been asking questions about its occurrence, and guiliani is trying to make clear it did not happen. there wasn t another meeting, that has been leaked, but hasn t been public yet. that was a meeting, alleged meeting three days before. he says there was a meeting with donald jr., with jared kushner, with paul manafort, with gates, and possibly two others in which they out of the presence of the president discussed the meeting with the russians. we checked with their lawyers, the ones we could check with, four of the six. that meeting never, ever took place. it didn t happen. it is a figment of his imagination or a lie. reporter: this as guiliani ramps up attacks on michael cohen, going after him personally. the guy is unethical, he is a scumbag, he is a horrible person. reporter: and pushing back against the revelation that according to sources cohen claims he is prepared to tell the special counsel the president knew in advance about donald jr. s meeting with the russians and approved to it. when you re lying, there s a trap. when we said there was a one on one meeting, donald jr. came in and told him the meeting was about to take place. two witnesses say it didn t happen. the president and his son. they have a self interest in saying that. and cohen has a bigger self interest in saying it. reporter: this is a 180 from glowing reviews for the fixer, attorney. he is an honest, honorable lawyer. i do not expect michael cohen will lie. i think he ll tell the truth. guiliani saying his opinion changed with the revelation cohen recorded at least one conversation with the president. how did i know he was a lawyer taping his client. you tell me a lawyer is taping his client, i have to say sorry, i made a mistake. i said he was honest and honorable, i didn t know he tape recorded conversations with clients, shaking down people for money. he was manipulating or doctoring tapes. i didn t know that when i said that. george washington didn t know benedict arnold was a traitor. and tonight, donald trump jr. s lawyer is issuing a statement on all of this, in light of don jr. s continued insistence he never told his father about the trump tower meeting, even though sources say michael cohen plans to say the president was told. he says we investigated this matter over a year and are in command of the facts, we are fully confident of the accuracy and reliability of the information that s been provided by donald trump jr. in the various investigations. of course, wolf, the lawyer for donald trump jr. is trying to tamp down stories precipated by precipated by this. you lie to congress, that s a crime. exactly. we ll see what happens. thank you very much. joining us, mazie horona, senator, thank you for joining us. thank you. you know president trump has repeatedly claimed there was no collusion, now his lawyer rudy guiliani is arguing collusion isn t even a crime necessarily, so what does that signal to you? i think that the news is closing. guiliani is like a loose cannon, so is the president frankly. conspiracy is a crime and obstruction of justice is a crime. and it all points to how important it is for the mueller investigation to continue. donald trump jr. s lawyer you just heard says they are fully confident the accuracy and reliability of the information that has been provided by donald trump jr. and various investigations, based on what we ve learned, do you think that reflects the information he provided to your committee during his q and a session? i know that during his sessions with us not just with our judiciary committee but the entire trump family as far as i m concerned has not been forthcoming and so at this point everybody s credibility in my view is questionable, and clearly guiliani s credibility is shot, even as he goes ahead and attacks michael cohen who he said was a great guy not too long ago. the chairman of your committee, senate judiciary committee chuck grassley says it is up to prosecutors now to determine if donald trump jr. lied before your committee and he won t call him back. are you satisfied with that? not particularly but on the other hand again it points out how important it is for the mueller investigation to continue even as trump and his minions and his enablers continue to go after mueller in a very personal way and they re just heightening their personal attacks on mueller, and this is why that investigation must continue. rudy guiliani tells cnn, i am quoting now, the president didn t hack and didn t pay them for hacking. that defense comes days after cnn reported that michael cohen says the president signed off on the russian meeting ahead of time, knew of the offer of dirt on hillary clinton. do you think the trump team is preparing for more revelations about what the president actually knew? they must be otherwise they wouldn t be so vehement and what i would say, acting like loose cannons. these are people that act as if they have something to hide and they re just scrambling, that s a good word, they re just scrambling to attack and obfuscate as to what s really happening. so i repeat myself. i keep repeating myself in terms of how critical the mueller investigation is and why these really personal and heightened attacks on mueller says to me that trump team is getting even more nervous than they have been. because as you know, the president and his lawyer guiliani are escalating dramatically personal attacks on the special counsel, robert mueller. how concerning is that to you? it is concerning in that they continue to put out conflicting information and frankly to watch rudy guiliani these days, it is very painful because there s a guy whose credibility is totally shot. he actually expects to continue to have people listen to whatever he has to say? no. and he s just doing the bidding of president trump. that s not serving the public at all, and the person who is getting to the bottom of this and in a way that can be verifiable and under oath is robert mueller. the president on a separate subject once again threat government shutdown over funding for the border wall and other immigration issues. do you think he would follow through on that threat so close to the november midterm elections? there s one thing about president trump, he continues to be very chaotic in his responses. these kinds of utterances come out of the blue. he must be feeling a great deal of pressure. he was given the opportunity to get the money for his wall when we had a bill in the senate, this was about the fourth bill that was a bipartisan bill to protect 800,000 dreamer participants. he said no to that. suddenly after months he brings up the wall again. it must be because he feels under attack and lashes out. that s one thing you can pretty much ascribe to the president, that when his back is against the wall, he attacks everybody he thinks is coming after him, whether it is real or not. just to be specific, earlier in the day he tweeted this. let me quote from his tweet. he said we must have border security, get rid of chain lottery, catch and release sanctuary cities, go to merit based immigration, protect i.c.e. and law enforcement and keep building, but much faster, the wall. when you look at the list, is there anything you and your colleagues and the democratic party are willing to work with the president on? we worked with him in a bipartisan way to protect the dreamers which included money for the wall, so that s being very much in line with where he situation in terms of foreign policy where our own allies can t really trust what the president says at any given moment. this is yet another very dangerous thing for him to do. i really think the president thinks that he can run this country the way he ran his companies. he can do and say whatever he wants, except in the case of the country, you know, when things go bad, you can t declare bankruptcy. he takes very little responsibility for anything he says. he lashes out. so the chaoticness of his responses, reactions, utterances, it is unbelievable. his own state department came out with a global report on terrorism and cited iranian as the leading state sponsor of terrorism, but the president is willing to meet with president rouhani, any place, any time, without any preconditions. he has a very inflated view of his own powers to do anything. in fact, what he is good at is creating chaos. sf senator, thanks for joining us. reading between the lines of the president s personal attacks on robert mueller. is he bracing for another big shoe to drop. and rudy guiliani s collusion isn t necessarily a prime argument. what s he trying to accomplish in the court of public opinion? 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we are following news on the one, two punches of president trump and his lawyer, rudy guiliani. the targets are clear, their strategy is more confusing, especially after the latest round of tweets by mr. trump and interviews by rudy guiliani. let s bring in our analysts and correspondents. kaitlin collins, you re with us over the past 48 hours. we ve seen the president and his supporters escalate dramatically their personal attacks, personal attacks on both robert mueller and michael cohen. how do you explain that? it s interesting to see how far we ve come from before march when president trump wouldn t say robert mueller s name, whether in person or on twitter. now he is attacking him several times a day, saying he has conflicts of interest without saying what they are. they asked rudy guiliani what is the president is alleging is a conflict of interest, is it about golf fees, dispute they had before. he said he couldn t even answer. we are seeing them ramp up attacks and the president being more and more consumed by it. you look at his twitter feed, constant that he is saying this. and the white house isn t answering questions about the president s mindset, instead referring us back to rudy guiliani who then in the interviews is making the allegations as he did today, now saying that collusion is not a crime. they seem to be moving the goalpost a bit. before they said the president didn t collude, there was no collusion. that s something we heard from the president on repeat essentially and now they re moving the goalpost essentially to say no, collusion is not a crime, which raises the question why would you make that argument if there s no collusion. let me play the clip from the interview he gave allison cammarata earlier today. i don t know if that s a crime, colluding about russians. you start analyzing the crime, the hacking is the crime. the hacking is the crime. that s certainly the original crime. he didn t pay them for hacking. what s he trying to achieve? it is true, there s no such crime in the federal code called collusion. however, it is unlawful for foreign entities of any kind, individuals, companies to assist in an american campaign. and if you look at the case against the russians who put all those ads on facebook, that clearly was the violation that they made. if it could be shown that people involved with the trump campaign actually helped do that, i think it is quite clear, that is a crime. so it is an odd day for him to declare collusion is not a crime. it is not just hacking that is unlawful. any sort of foreign assistance to a domestic campaign is a crime. and the last line, he didn t pay for the hacking raises a lot of questions. why are they making that argument now that the president didn t pay for it. there are all sorts of crimes he didn t commit, i think we can agree on that. the question is did he commit the crimes he is under investigation for. conspiracy is a crime, it is another word for collusion. let me point out, ann melgrum, in the memo the deputy attorney general rod rosenstein issued august 2nd, 2017, almost exactly a year ago, outlining the scope of the russia investigation, rosenstein writes that mueller should investigate, quote, lagsz that paul manafort committed a crime or crimes by colluding with russian government officials with respect to the russian government s efforts to interfere in the 2016 election for president of the united states, in violation of united states law. how effective is this argument guiliani is now making that collusion isn t even necessarily a crime? right. by rosenstein s own language he is basically saying committed a crime or crimes, and by colluding is the way in which they would have done it, by working with the russians, by essentially cooperating with the russians. as you said, conspiracy is a crime, aiding, abetting is a crime. no one said collusion is a separate crime. it is the way the president could have actually committed a crime, which is by working with the russians. it could be as simple as getting that information, coordinating the release of information coming from hacked e-mails or cooperating on social media, influencing an election. david swerdlick, it is interesting because guiliani today out of the blue brings up a second meeting just before the infamous trump tower meeting took place, second meeting involving the russians, only to deny it later in the day. what s going on here? wolf, it is almost like he is trying to be a jedi mind trick saying these are not the droids you re looking for. in the same statement, he says there was this meeting, we tried to reach out to people in the meeting, maybe there wasn t this meeting. i don t think it is clear. what ultimately will matter in this case, wolf, is whether or not the justice department or congress or ultimately the american people believe the story michael cohen is reportedly telling or the story the president of the united states is sticking to regarding whether or not he knew about the meeting. anything rudy guiliani says is repeated in the conservative echo chamber, bright paeitbart, news. the reason rudy guiliani is so outspoken is because people listen and take it seriously and repeat it and so whether we we can have a sophisticated legal debate whether collusion is a crime. you can be sure lots of people on social media are saying of course, collusion is no crime. that s an accomplishment in and of itself. the president has gone from going after the so-called witch hunt, now all of a sudden it is a very personal issue for him, he is going after the robert mueller witch hunt. that s right, and so is rudy guiliani. let s be clear, guiliani hasn t been a lawyer since moses was knee high to a grass hopper. this is not about the law. this is looking at attacks on the investigation, realizing out of 35, 40% of america believe the president. the investigation is a witch hunt. so you go into end game. the president says now i have to get closer to home. not only want to undercut the integrity of the investigation but the investigator. i think trump realized along with guiliani they made hay saying it is a witch hunt, now they re transitioning to saying as we go to end game, try the same tactic to undercut robert mueller. and guiliani is really going after michael cohen big time and the attacks against michael cohen are only going to escalate. notice they re trying to delegitimize michael cohen and everything he is saying because he is saying that donald trump jr. lied when he said his father didn t know about the meeting with russian officials beforehand because michael cohen is saying the president was aware of it. so it is essentially michael cohen s word versus president trump s, which is likely why we saw rudy guiliani making the rounds on cable television this morning, making these arguments against michael cohen, even though he previously referred to him as one of those honest people that he s ever known. he tweeted that. now they re trying to go after him in this way. you clearly see it all goes back to president trump who has been the most angry he has ever been over the past year since mueller took over the investigation, and since the cohen stuff happened with the fbi raiding his home, office, and hotel, the cohen stuff in fewer ated infuriated the president. and now that michael cohen is making the allegations about his son, which is really the most sensitive issue for president trump, is going after his family, now we re seeing him zero in on michael cohen, even though they have not ruled out a pardon for michael cohen yet from president trump. very strange. how do you see it? very strange. you know, the only mode that the trump team operates in is attack. anyone that crosses them gets attacked. michael cohen has apparently switched sides informally if not legally so he s now target number one. i maintained the slight hope that actually the truth matters and we re going to find out, like who attended these meetings, what was said. people will testify about it under oath and will be able to decide what happened but what we know for sure is anyone that crosses donald trump will be attacked mercilessly. i have to assume mueller and his team, they have been working for more than a year now, they know so much more about all of this than we know, than we have any suspicion of knowing. you re a former prosecutor. yeah. there s no question. there s so much we don t know. we re going to learn more starting shortly when the manafort trial begins, and i also don t think in addition to the cohen tapes coming out and cohen switching sides publicly, i think we re on the eve of the manafort trial, may be driving some of the swings the president is making now because i think we re going to see three weeks of news that s devastating about what manafort was engaged in. so they may be preparing for that as well. good point. that trial begins tomorrow with jury selection. just ahead, the criminal trial of former trump campaign paul manafort, once again, beginning very, very soon, tomorrow. the special counsel is now revealing how manafort pocketed tens of millions of dollars. we ll go life to the worsening fire disaster in california where a grandmother and great grandchildren are among the dead. crabfest is back at red lobster, with our largest variety of crab all year! like new crabfest combo. your one chance to have new jumbo snow crab with tender dungeness crab. or try crab lover s dream. but hurry in. cause crabfest will be gone in a snap. new laptop with 24/7 tech support. yep, thanks guys. i think he might need some support. yes start them off right. with the school supplies they need at low prices all summer long. save $200 on this dell laptop at office depot officemax. could help them save money on car insurance? yea,that and homeowners, renters, motorcycle and boat insurance. huh.that s nice. what happens when you catch a fish? gecko: whoa. geico. more than just car insurance. see how much you could save at geico.com. i m ok! them, not so much. we let you keep an eye on your business from anywhere. the others? nope! get internet on our gig-speed network and add voice and tv for $34.90 more per month. call or go online today. the special counsel robert mueller s team says indicted former trump campaign chairman paul manafort made $60 million from his political consulting work in ukraine. let s go to justice correspondent evan perez. explain why this revelation of how much money manafort made is important. wolf, this is a revelation that came just in the last couple hours. we were talking hours away from when jury selection is set to begin in alexandria, virginia. prosecutors for robert mueller and the defense are fighting over whether or not the jury will get to see 50 or so exhibits. these are exhibits that the manafort team says are prejudicial, that they re irrelevant to the charges. manafort is going on trial on bank and tax fraud charges, so the manafort team wants these exhibits and this evidence not shown to the jury. the government responded this afternoon saying that this is evidence that shows that manafort made $60 million working for the ukrainian government, these are e-mails, memos, photos that they show full, the full sweep of manafort s ukrainian work. essentially they say this is evidence that s going to be corroborating evidence for some of the witnesses that are going to describe what manafort was doing and why he was using these bank accounts in cypress and other foreign locations to hide money that he did not report to the irs. this is very key evidence, the government says, to this trial, wolf. as you point out, his trial gets under way with jury selection tomorrow in suburban virginia outside washington, d.c. what can we expect? i tell you what not to expect. we re not expecting the word russia, collusion, probably hardly even hearing the name of president trump in this trial. the government and the defense have both agreed that they re going to keep this focused on bank fraud, tax charges. look, this is a tall order for manafort. this is an up hill climb for them. he either filed paperwork saying he owned these bank accounts or he did not, and what we know is he did not. what we expect is that manafort s team will say look, these accounts didn t belong to him, so this is why the government s evidence which is going to show all the work he was doing and why he was getting paid in these foreign locations is very important. so we expect three weeks of trial, wolf, and again, a lot of this will be squarely focused on tax and bank fraud charges. remember, manafort also faces charges here in washington, d.c. that one has a lot more to do with the allegations that he was working for the ukrainian government and failed to register as a foreign agent, even as he was working for the trump campaign. let s not forget, the president as the candidate picked manafort to be his campaign chairman. evan perez, thank you very much. phil, what does this tell you about how robert mueller and his team are working? this is like for a former prowrestling fan, steel cage. no one walks out without blood on them. what s happening, you saw this with guiliani, the president will try to say the only issue on the table is russia. all this stuff about lying to federal investigators and this stuff about money is a side show. what the government is saying is look, when we started doing the investigation this isn t about a few thousand bucks, this isn t about change you shake out of the sofa, you re talking about somebody with $60 million of income and didn t declare it. as they conduct the investigation, i think mueller is sitting here saying i followed the money and i had no option but to say it wasn t an insignificant amount. manafort was wildly in violation of the law. what s peculiar is even at this late stage, it is unclear what manafort s defense is at the trial. remember, rick gates who is with him every step of the way is going to be testifying that the whole thing was an illegal scam, tax avoidance, money laundering. what s the defense? rick gates is trying to save his own skin, but did he pay his taxes? i mean, what s the defense in the case? i don t know. if he s convicted, he s going to spend the rest of his life in jail given all of the charges leveled against him which is to me sort of surprising he didn t cooperate and say let s make a deal. yeah. i mean, this is in my opinion an incredibly strong case, a paper case. i think jeff and phil asked the right question which is what is the defense, particularly where there s a cooperator that will say that was manafort s account. this strikes me as an incredible difficult case for manafort to beat, and when you talk about paper cases, you follow the money and the trail and you have a criminal prosecution that more often than not is successful. as to the time, i mean, each count can be up to 30 years. he is looking at a lot of exposure in federal prison for a conviction. by the way, it is in alexandria known as the rocket docket. they say it will take three weeks. bet it will take two rather than three. things go very fast in that courthouse. and this is focused on tax and bank fraud, things that occurred before he was campaign chairman for president trump, but it puts the focus back on the special counsel and investigation and robert mueller, that will be played out on television which we know the president watches frequently day after day after day. it is only going to bring that up and in fewer raate him in fewer ate him more. he said what manafort did was a long time ago. has nothing to do with me. what it has to do with him is the obvious, he was his campaign chair at a critical juncture in the campaign. someone who had been a long term fixture in republican politics, and as jeffrey was saying, there s certainly not an obvious defense for what he did in his consulting practice. then you have all these dashed lines to his business ties overseas with prorussian, ukrainian government forces. this is another dash line to the russian investigation. doesn t prove he is guilty of anything, but makes it clear why it is being investigated. let s button up what happened to you last week at the white house. you were the network pool reporter at an event, asked important questions, the president didn t want to answer, that was fine, you left. then you were told you can t go to an open event in the rose garden because they didn t like the questions you were asking. what s been the fallout since then? well, that s right. the white house received a lot of backlash from other reporters because i was there representing all negotiatitworks. i went in today representing all of the networks. i asked questions and they said he wouldn t answer them because he already had a press conference earlier. we re going to continue to ask the president questions, that s our job, that s what we do day-in and day-out. clearly the cohen stuff is consuming the president and he is quite angry about, that s what we asked about in the oval office last week. you can see that s showing you and revealing to you the president s mindset on all of this. and just how angry he is over what his former attorney, long time friend and fixer has said about him. the president s frustration is really coming through in regards to all of the questions. you re doing an excellent job for cnn and all of the networks. we re grateful to have you. thanks so much for doing that, give her a round of applause. doing a great job. taking a quick break. more news after this. before you can achieve a higher standard of craftsmanship, you need a higher standard of craftsman. see for yourself at the lexus golden opportunity sales event. lease the 2018 es 350 for $329 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. 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prices all summer long. save $200 on this dell laptop at office depot officemax. breaking news tonight. president trump doubling down on his threat to shut down the federal government if congress doesn t bow to his border security immigration demands, including funding for his border wall with mexico. sunlen serfaty is on capitol hill. republicans control congress, the house and the senate. the prospect of a government shutdown before midterm elections must be rattling a lot of nerves there. reporter: certainly is, it is not what republican leaders want or expected. one republican senator telling me moments ago this would be a big mistake if it happens. it is not at all necessary. but here you have the president of the united states throwing a wrench into his own party s plan by threatening the potential shutdown and essentially throwing this place into a state of uncertainty. you had speaker of the house paul ryan and mitch mcconnell who headed to the white house last week to meet with president trump on this very issue, and both of those leaders left that meeting with confidence that this could be avoided, that they felt president trump would sign a short term measure, even if it didn t include money for his border wall, even if it didn t include these other broader immigration reforms that he has been calling for. so what we saw from republican leaders responding to the threat downplay the significance of this presidential tweet and then his threat that he doubled down on today, saying that they re going to continue on with their own plans to pass as so many spending bills before the midterm elections as possible, avoiding a shutdown. this is something we saw echoed from mitch mcconnell on the senate floor earlier today. we ll finish up the set of appropriation measures. we ve been considering for several days and take four more big steps toward our goal of completing our regulation appropriations process and funding the government in a timely and orderly manner. reporter: now, keep in mind, president trump has made similar threats before, back earlier this year he ended up, indeed, signing a spending bill that would fund the government until september, but he made comments in march saying, look, he was very unhappy that the money that was not included for the border wall he wants. he says then that this is something that he would not do again. there are a lot of things that i m unhappy about in this bill. there are a lot of things that we shouldn t have had in this bill but we were in a sense forced if we want to build our military, we were forced to have. there are some things that we should have in the bill, but i say to congress, i will never sign another bill like this again. i m not going to do it again. reporter: the timeline of this potentially new threat is certainly important here as well. the government is set to run out of money at the end of the day on september 30th. that seems like a far away off, but it most certainly is not because the house just went on a five-week recess. when they get back in early september, that only gives them 11 legislative days to figure all this out. this deadline looming, that puts them about one month before midterm elections and why we saw this huge response from republicans on capitol hill today, essentially warning what this would do. senator lindsey graham telling us just moments ago that republicans are the ones who are going to get the blame. sunlen serfaty, thanks for that report. more breaking news. we re going to get a live update on the truly devastating fire ravaging northern california tonight. we ll hear from a man who was on the phone with his family as the fire claimed their lives. this is not a bed. it s a high-tech revolution in sleep. the new sleep number 360 smart bed. it intelligently senses your movement and automatically adjusts on each side to keep you both comfortable. and snoring? how smart is that? smarter sleep. to help you lose your dad bod, 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wildfires blazing in california right now, but this is the biggest, more than 700 homes destroyed so far in the redding area. redding s police chief lost his own home sunday. he is back at work. this is all hands on deck. this fire is leaving a trail of destruction, devastation and heartbreak. one of the most destructive fires to ever burn in california, 150 square miles, an area the size of denver, scorched. almost 1,000 buildings destroyed, 38,000 people forced to flee their homes and six lives lost so far. among them, two firefighters, one person who refused to evacuate and three members of a family who were getting ready to flee the flames. ed bledsoe spoke to his wife melody and their great grandchildren emily and james moments before the fire reached them. it s coming near me. the fire s coming in the back door. come on, grandpa. i m right down the road. he said, come and get us. emily said, i love you grandpa. grandma says i home you grandpa, junior says i love you, come and get us. i said i m on my way. reporter: the fire is so large and temperatures so hot it is creating its own weather system. it can be seen from space. gail force winds whipped towering flames into what firefighters described as fire tornadoes. and the fire actually doubled in size overnight at the weekend. this isn t just a back country blaze. the fire threatening and burning parts of redding, california, population more than 90,000. this fire is scary to us. this is something we haven t seen before in the city. reporter: some were given only 30 minutes to evacuate, not knowing if they would ever see their homes again. it looked like an atomic bomb went off after the fact. we got a few pictures from friends, but it was a firestorm when we left. reporter: for the lister family, their worst fears realized, they lost everything. there are now scattered reports of looting in those abandoned areas and on the fire lines 17 helicopters, 300 engines and over 3,000 personnel continue to fight for control of this inferno. now, we just got the first bit of good news today, that the fire is now 20% contained. they ve been working very hard
The day s top stories from around the world, from politics and money, to sports and pop culture. that conversation obviously referencing david pecker, as well. we reached out for comment and we haven t heard back just yet. thanks so much. let s chat about this with our experts. another ally of the president s talking to authorities, the walls seem to be closing in a bit. it gives an indication of why the document was so thorough. they had the cooperation of david pecker. we don t know what more that means, how much and what other information pecker has that cohen wasn t aware of. a trump friend reportedly told vanity fair quote holy s, i thought pecker would be the last one to turn. i have to say this is a powerful guy and the fact that he is cooperating with authorities i find it is hard to believe he is doing it out of the goodness of his heart. it almost makes you think they put their pressure on david pecker. he is a powerful guy. he is covered as a media organization. you could put up a big fight and decline to cooperate and turn it into a battle if you want. it is safe to bet the president would bet on his side on that. it is telling to see people who are so friendly to the president over so many years turning on him like this. it does make you wonder this is a slice forward and a small slice of what the people are willing to share with investigators. we don t know what they are not cooperating about or what investigators have agreed to push to the side in exchange. are you surprised? you have cohen. he was in hot water. are you surprised the long-time trump associates are turning on him? no, because the justice department is a very different thing from resisting hostile media inquiries or standing up to congress. i think that has been under mated throughout the coverage under estimated throughout the coverage of this. two to three weeks later what are you going to do about it? justice department investigations are different. they have a huge amount of leverage. you don t choose whether to cooperate. they indict you or they don t. they offer you a plea bargain or they don t. they have all of the information. it is the entire justice department. it is rod rosenstein managing a complex investigation with two extremely experienced and able teams. that just changes everything. we need to start thinking about the implications. they got this guy to flip and then it is like a news story and move on to something else. they now know who they have to go after. here is the evidence we have from these e-mails. you better tell us the truth. i think the justice department is just a whole different kettle of fish. and one of the things that is interesting is there has been a lot of talk of whether or not michael cohen is credible and reliable. it turns out according to the justice department at least there is another source. it s not just michael cohen. it is interesting news that we found this out because on tuesday when he was under oath and pleading guilty we were wondering, is there a deal? what is going on? now we know they were also talking to pecker. they had another piece of the pie as you were saying. every day i think we will get more and more pieces. and so i think that what cohen and pecker is learning is that there is no loyalty. loyalty is really one way with donald trump. they have to watch out for themselves. you can t lie to the fbi. you just can t lie. you can see why the president is so frustrated to see all of his friends turning on him like this. he does make his point poorly. i think his point is sort of that campaign finance violations are very hard to prosecute. it s very hard to take that to court and to win in a court of law. so the fact that the president is implicated in this campaign finance violation is not the same as being found guilty. when you have your personal lawyer plead guilty, the president looks pretty guilty. i m sure he would have wished that michael cohen said i will try to fight this. you will talk to lawyers and they will tell you it is harder to prove this in court. that is probably part of the reason prosecutors wanted cohen to sign a plea deal. it is hard to under estimate the dirty work that the national inquirer did for donald trump during the campaign. here is some of the coverage they chose during the campaign. they falsely linked ted cruz s dad to the assassination of john f. kennedy. they claimed that ted cruz had affairs. no evidence for this. ted cruz denies it. they published a number of covers on hillary clinton, one reading hillary s hitman tells all. they have circulation of 350,000 in 2016. how many votes did he win by? 80,000. if you flip half of those hillary would be president. they have a close long-term relationship that predates the campaign. i think this one of the mysteries of this prosecution is they had cohen pretty dead to rights on tax evasion and bank fraud. as we saw with the manafort trial those are easy document-based prosecutions. they had to make a decision on the campaign finance violation. this is not a clear-cut easy case. they tried to do a similar campaign finance case against john edwaragainst they had to make a serious decision to go forward with this knowing that they were going to implicate someone who the justice department says they can t indict, the president. so why did they do that? why did they just nail cohen for na tax evasion and the bank fraud? why did they throw this campaign finance violation? that gets into tricky first amendment issue because it is a media company and makes the president look like a criminal conspirator. they think michael cohen knows about other issues. and to take it back to trump s instinct was always right. given the way trump lived his life both in terms of private life, financial dealings, he knew once this got going, once this rock was turned over now we are seeing what happens with serious prosecutor. i give the justice department huge credit for this. comey said i know a lot more. he was telling that to the justice department. come to me. i have more information for you. and now we are down the rabbit hole looking at the national enquirer covers that looked like and wondering what might they have looked like if they hadn t been trying to strike up these back room deals? donald trump has been a man about town in new york for quite some time. you have to imagine there were a couple of stories out there it might have been an interesting cover for the national enquirer. one wonders if david pecker only knows of two such women paid off. we have a lot more to talk about. what was keeping president trump up so late last night and causing him to tweet at 1:00 in the morning? was it how to turn the a plus grade into a plus plus. jeff sessions fires back at president trump s insults minutes before heading into the white house. stay with us. you might take something for your heart. or joints. but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in clinical trials to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. so you have, your headphones, chair, new laptop, 24/7 tech support. yep, thanks guys. i think he might need some support. yes. start them off right, with the school supplies they need at low prices all summer long. like these for only $2 or less at office depot officemax. like these for only $2 or less timeit should be measuredsured byby how long steak & lobster is back at outback. back by popular demand, steak & lobster starting at $15.99! and time.is limited, so hurry in today. and if you want outback at home, order now! or wearing a full-body wetsuit at this spa retreat? or sliding into this ski lodge with my mini horse kevin? because hotels.com lets me do me, right? sorry, the cold makes him a little horse. hotels.com. you do you and get rewarded. you re wearing a hat. that s funny. so, howell.going? we had a vacation early in our marriage that kinda put us in a hole. go someplace exotic? yeah, bermuda. a hospital in bermuda. a hospital in bermuda. what? what happened? i got a little over-confident on a moped. even with insurance, we had to dip into our 401(k) so it set us back a little bit. sometimes you don t have a choice. but it doesn t mean you can t get back on track. great. yeah, great. i d like to go back to bermuda. i hear it s nice. yeah, i d like to see it. no judgment. just guidance. td ameritrade. we are back with more on our politics lead, president trump down playing and distancing saying of his former personal attorney michael cohen that he was one of his many lawyers doing only small deals for him working, quote, more or less as a part-time employee. that is a totally new characterization of cohen from what we heard before. let s go to kaitlan collins at the white house. we learned rudy giuliani told the washington post president trump asked about possibly pardoning paul manafort. sarah huckabee sanders telling reporters there have been no discussions of the potential pardon for the former campaign chair. the washington post is reporting that weeks ago the president talked about the prospect of pardoning paul manafort. he was in the middle of his trial in which he was convicted found guilty of eight counts. the president was complaining that he believed paul manafort was being treated unfairly by the prosecutors. rudy giuliani tells the post that he convinced the president to wait to make decisions about pardons until after the special counsel robert mueller finishes his investigation. what we do know is that even today the president refused to rule out pardoning paul manafort. president trump arms folded and biting his tongue today, staying quiet when it came to questions about whether he is considering pardoning his former campaign chair paul manafort found guilty this week on eight counts of tax and bank fraud. thank you very much. reporter: trump expressing sympathy for manafort when he was asked the same question the day before. i have great respect for what he has done in terms of what he has gone through. reporter: the president s praise for manafort coming along side his scorn for his former personal attorney michael cohen after cohen implicated him in a crime claiming under oath that trump directed him to pay two women who claim they had affairs with them. turned out he wasn t a good lawyer. he has been a lawyer for me, didn t do big deals, did small deals, not somebody that was with me that much. they make it sound like i didn t live without him. he was somebody that was probably with me for about ten years and i would see him sometimes. reporter: cohen served as the president s attack dog for the last decade, even earning an office next to him on the 26th floor of trump tower in new york. but sources say the president was blind sided when cohen turned on him and he has spent the days since spewing over it. no collusion, rigged witch hunt, 1:00 a.m. tweet. with impeachment talk accelerating in washington trump saying this. i don t know how you can impeach somebody who has done a great job. if i ever got impeached i think the market would crash. i think everybody would be very poor because without this thinking you would see numbers that you wouldn t believe. reporter: adding if he were to give himself a grade i would give meseyself an a plus. reporter: an impeachment could rattle investors. kaitlan collins, thanks so much. let s talk about this with our legal experts. jeffrey, you have interviewed david pecker. he seems to be a witness to corroborate the testimony. one thing david pecker was open about was his enormous affection for donald trump and his determination to use the enquirer to help donald trump get elected president. there is nothing improper about that. the nation is a magazine that supports liberals. the weekly standard supports conservatives. magazines can support candidates. the issue is can they use money to subsidize their campaigns? that would be unlawful. david pecker did admit to me that he did give money to one of the president s or then candidate s alleged former lovers to help donald trump get elected. i think there is potentially some legal problems for him. there was until he got immunity. talking about david pecker. the president suggesting it should almost be illegal for someone facing jail time to become a cooperating witness, the flip. everything is wonderful and then they get ten years in jail and they flip on whoever the next highest one is or as high as you can go. it almost ought to be outlawed. it s not fair. you get ten years in jail but if you say bad things about somebody, in other words, make up stories, they make up lies. how common is flipping? and what is there to prevent people from lying as president trump suggests michael cohen is doing in order to get a better deal? flipping is a generalized term for giving information to the government that would not otherwise be privy to that is verifiable and truthful. it s not just giving an answer that you think the person wants to hear. i can t withdraw information from you as a prosecutor that is not truthful that i cannot verify. it would be nice if that fact would fit into this box. the idea of the safe guards are in place, corroboration. you want to have other objective information available to you to say this is actually what happened. and it happens all the time. i was going to say didn t rudy giuliani make his name by flipping members of the mob? long ago i was a summer intern in rudy giuliani s u.s. attorney s office. i worked on the commission case which was the case that brought down the heads of the five families. it is one of rudy giuliani s greatest triumphs. it was built on the testimony of cooperators. every case against mob leaders, against the top insider traders are all based on people who plead guilty and flip. if you want to stop that you stop prosecuting the leading criminals in america. just because you are flipping does not mean it is not factual information. it should be truthful. flipping is not synonymous with lying, mr. president. rudy giuliani tried to make a case that cohen s implication against the president cannot factor into grounds for immun y impeachment. he didn t collude with the russians. he didn t obstruct justice. you only impeach him for political reasons. what is your reaction to that? which american people are voting on your behalf? if you are somebody who has broken the law the revolt is the impeachment process itself. if you are not executive branch holder who can say we cannot have crimes in our world. this is really a little bit of gas lighting people to suggest that this is the only mechanism in which we can have trust in the system. impeachment is there to prevent people from having these incidents. it s also true that the choice here is not michael cohen is a terrible person or donald trump has to be impeached. let s have an investigation. let s have a public investigation and see what happened here. we have michael cohen who has said in open court that his legal acts were coordinated with and directed by donald trump. what does that mean? it is certainly very suggestive and important. it doesn t mean the president will be impeached. certainly given that statement and everything that has gone on here there should be some investigation of like whether donald trump actually did violate the law. thank you both. that was brave. just minutes before heading to the white house attorney general jeff sessions firing back at president trump s insults. the punching bag s punchback next. see psoriasis. you see clear skin. you see me. but if you saw me before cosentyx. i was covered. it was awful. but i didn t give up. i kept fighting. i got clear skin with cosentyx. 3 years and counting. clear skin can last. see if cosentyx could make a difference for you. cosentyx is proven to help people with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis find clear skin that can last. don t use if you re allergic to cosentyx. before starting cosentyx, you should be checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms. or if you have received a vaccine or plan to. if you have inflammatory bowel disease, tell your doctor if symptoms develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. see me now. i m still clear. how sexy are these elbows? 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jake, unlike the name calling of the past, sources familiar with sessions tell me that the fact that he struck at the idea that he doesn t have control under mines his authority and for that sessions thought was a bridge too far. jeff sessions recused himself which he shouldn t have done or he should have told me. reporter: president trump taking aim at his own attorney general for recusing himself from the russia investigation. he took the job and said i am going to recuse myself. i said what kind of a man is this. i put an attorney general that never took control of the justice department, jeff sessions. never took control of the justice department and it is sort of an incredible thing. reporter: it s that specific line sources say that prompted a rare pushback from jeff sessions defending himself and the work of the justice department saying, quote, i took control of the department of justice the day i was sworn in which is why we have had unprecedented succe success. while i am attorney general the actions of the department of justice will not be improperly influenced by political considerations, a strong rebuke from the man president trump reduced to scared stiff and missing in action, blaming him for mueller s appointment and a failure to further investigate democrats trump says have committed wrong doing. there has been a lot of conference around the activities at the department of justice of late. reporter: despite all of that trump wouldn t say whether he plans to fire sessions. i will stay uninvolved and maybe that is the best thing to do. reporter: if that changes and sessions is replaced before the november election the number two republican in the senate says i think it would be a mistake and i don t think it would be good for the country. reporter: after the election, south carolina republican lindsey graham suggests there could be a new attorney general. i think there will come a time where it will be time to have a new face and a fresh voice at the department of justice. clearly attorney general sessions doesn t have the confidence of the president. reporter: for all of the president s bluster on fox, according to sources today at a meeting at white house president trump did not bring up sessions statement at all. sessions didn t say a word about it and the attorney general is still on the job. seems like a healthy relationship. appreciate it. so according to lindsey graham, senator from south carolina, republican and friend of president trump, sessions is living on borrowed time and maybe after the election president trump will replace him. as if sessions wasn t living on borrowed time. i didn t know he had an expiration date like a bottle of milk. they looked at instances where they wanted to get rid of him but they know it is an uphill political battle. the senate has put up a fight in the past. i think they are a little more amenable to the notion that trump could replace sessions after the mid terms. i think this is something they could re-evaluate. there is no doubt that in the president s mind it is just a matter of when he is able to do this and not if. lindsey graham s statement is totally irresponsible. i think your point about the politics, let s think about that. if you are a democrat trying to hold the senate seat in missouri, why don t you say if you want to have a republican senate, lindsey graham said he would replace sessions. you want a republican senate rubber stamped some trump crony put in there to really effect this investigation? we need a democratic senate. graham is being irresponsible and foolish. this situation puts people like you, progressives, in a very awkward situation. i don t like sessions. sessions says i took control at the department of justice the day i was sworn in which is why we have had unprecedented success. let s not forget, sessions was the first u.s. senator to endorse donald trump. he is out of any of the cabinet secretary, he managed to advance donald trump s agenda very effectively. i m not a fan of sessions. it is wrong to fire sessions because you want to end the russia probe. so that s what he is gearing up to do. he has been telling us that for months. we should not be surprised if it happens. i believe that it will because donald trump has no poker face. he basically puts out all of his cards and tells you what he is about to do. i think we are in a really grave time. graham and grassley once said we don t have time to confirm an attorney general, said maybe we do now. republicans are certainly not doing their party any good here. take a listen to this because this is another part of the trump interview on fox. this is why he doesn t like jeff sessions. it has nothing to do with enacting the agenda and everything to do with loyalty. the only reason i gave him the job because of loyalty. he was an original supporter. this is a constant theme with president trump. i was watching that interview and it reminded me of some of the things that nixon used to say on the tapes behind the scenes and when they were released people were outraged and he sounded like a mob boss. trump says it out in the open. he didn t have to ask a single tough question. this is one of the weird strategies he has is saying all of the stuff that creates constant outrage totally out in the open. his twitter feed and public statements are like nixon tapes. if sessions hasn t shown loyalty he recused himself because the justice department ethical guidelines told him he had to. now president trump very openly talking about rudy giuliani acknowledging this whether or not manafort will be pardoned. my gut tells me he is going to do it. so much verbal gymnastics about whether he is willing to consider it. the president has clearly forecasted and he has been saying for months that he feels badly for paul manafort because he feels like manafort s past crimes have gotten any attention was because this was a guy who went to believes everyone is out to get him. it seems clear that the president wants to pardon this guy. this seems like a question of when. i think he has had a lot of people saying please do not do this right now as we are gearing up for difficult mid terms and while paul manafort is in the middle of two different trials. the guy is already in jail. he can sit in jail for a little while longer. if you want to pardon him maybe that is something we deal with after the second trial. as you pointed out the president has no poker face. rudy giuliani frankly is not much better about that. they are just going out there saying whatever they want. how bad do you think it would be for the country to paul manafort before or after the mid terms? it would be bad and taken by a democratic house and republican members of the house as an impeachable moment or one would have to consider impeachment. if you are pardoning someone almost explicitly to hamper an investigation into yourself that has been proven to have some credibility so far based on various guilty pleas and verdicts. he is signaling roger stone who seems to be under inquiry by the special counsel, that he should hang tough and pardons will be there. i suppose you want manafort and stone and others believing they would get pardoned if they hang tough maybe until the end of the four years and not just the two. that is a tough thing. i never put beyond what could happen that he could pardon manafort and stone and be willing to run that risk. stay right here. we will come back to you guys. a throwback thursday trump style. the then-businessman giving his take on a president testifying under oath and saying something nice about hillary clinton. oh! oh! ozempic®! 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not if he takes advice from his former self circa 1999 on the tonight show. what are your thoughts on that? a lot of bad choices there. i don t know where these folks came from monica, paula jones. i have never seen anything like it. i m sure the president wished he had never seen anything like it. you have some beauties in that deal. what do you think he should have done? let s suppose you are in that same situation, what would you have done? what should clinton have done? he could have come clean. you gave me that answer just before the show. he could have come clean or he sho should have never answered the questions. i think his lawyers did an absolutely atrocious job. they could have fought a little harder not to have to answer the question. it is tough to answer that question with your wife sitting at home. did you have an affair with this woman? hillary has had a hard time. this has not been this could not have been three years of fun for hillary. . wow. i wish we had like a back to the future thing. one of the things that strikes me about this is the idea that bill clinton should have come clean but he doesn t suggest that that is what bill clinton should have done. he should have had better lawyers so he wouldn t have to answer the question. it s all so bizarre. i watch the tape. everyone has flipped from where they were then to where they are now. donald trump should take his advice from 1999. i don t know what to make of this. it s bizarre. the basic what he was saying is he should have figured out a way to slip the noose on the prosecutors. he should have been more creative with his lawyers and suggesting that trump could get out of a sticky situation and can t believe clinton was so dumb to do an interview with the prosecutor. he had to sit down with ken star because the original lie, there was evidence to refute it. trump is saying clinton is not crafty enough. they are trying to sustain i would say falsehoods against the legal investigation. one of the other things that is interesting is the sympathy he has for hillary clinton. also, he suggested he has sympathy for the husband. that would be tough to admit with your wife right there. tough for him to hear but much harder for the person who did the stuff wrong to have to admit it. i hope he tweaks his language a little bit more. so the basis of the entire interview was donald trump was considering running for president in 1999 on the reform party ticket. take a listen to this exchange. do you feel you will be able to restore dignity to the office? i think i would because he has suffered from a lack of dignity. would your past be a problem? i don t think so. i think nowadays it s not. who knows? we ll see. would your past be a problem? i don t think so. i love how he says these days it wouldn t be a problem. i think he means that in the sense of having been married multiple times and maybe having sort of a nontraditional. i took it as maybe he means nontraditional family background. i don t know that people are as sympathetic to the whole paying off former play mates. at the same time, this is a guy who got elected after a dozen people accused him of unwanted sexual conduct and he won. maybe 1999 donald trump was right. it doesn t matter to his supporters now. or to bill clinton supporters. it s not like bill clinton was only accused of anything after he was in the white house. that was before. i thought that he meant when he said it didn t matter these days was post bill clinton i think we are in a different time, swing, baby. trump is right, if you had said to me at the time of the clinton thing people who were most upset, what lessons is this teaching our kids especially christians and others who just couldn t believe this was happening in the white house in the oval office they were right to be. they are fine with trump. you said the words paying off a former playboy model. it sounds almost archaic. is anyone pretending to be outraged about the underlying behavior. has anyone said it s kind of horrible that we have a president who has been paying hush money to various women. that is one thing i did think. it highlights the hypocrisy. when clinton was in his awful troubles, republicans attacked him and wanted to take him down. now we have i think times ten with donald trump. the evangelicals stayed with him. there was no movement. democrats all had to say that this is really terrible behavior. it s not impeachment. i think they all did say this is unacceptable behavior. the defenders of trump don t have the first two sentences of this is unacceptable behavior. one person who has been consistent on this issue is donald trump. he doesn t think it is a big deal. the one thing i will say that certainly has changed over the course of that time is there was also a sentiment when bill clinton was going through this that this is not a national conversation that we should be having. this is an issue between a man and his wife and so salacious that we would be dragging this out into public and dragging their personal life through the mud. we are in a different era now. i think that sort of could potentially change the way the light this is cast on. we are not as far in the throws of this when donald trump was elected although we were kind of at the beginning of that. will it make a difference? it hasn t made a difference of trump supporters so far. so it is the middle section where you wonder is there a bridge too far? does it leave a sour taste in your mouth to the point where you are willing to change your vote? coming up, the last time president trump made news talking about africa he called some countries in that continent s-holes. a new tweet can t be much worse. , little things can be a big deal. that s why there s otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it s a pill that treats differently. for psoriasis, 75% clearer skin is achievable, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and for psoriatic arthritis, otezla is proven to reduce joint swelling, tenderness, and pain. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don t use if you re allergic to otezla. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. tell your doctor if these occur. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. other side effects include upper respiratory tract infection and headache. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if you re pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you. be right back. with moderate to severe crohn s disease, i was there, just not always where i needed to be. is she alright? 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not according to a study last year from a large south african farmer s group which found while violence remains high, attacks on farmers have been declining. trump s tweet was based on false information. government officials quickly said calling him hysterical comments. the false notion of white south african is a populartrope, some have plenty to like in president trump. his brutal comments about some african countries, attacks on protesting football players and more. even as he intist sists he is n racist. i am the least racist person you have interviewed. reporter: to be clear as far as we can find the president has never before directly tweeted about any issues in africa and now that he has chosen to do so