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His approval rating is already really low. it's already 36%, you know? he doesn't need to lose all of his base for it to tank the republican party. he just needs to split off a kind of hard-core chunk of it. and there's no solution to this that doesn't alienate someone that he needs. >> well, leon, i said you were wrong, look at the business. michelle says i'm wrong, look at the cults. a final word from you for your thoughts? >> listen, i don't want to go so far as to call it a cult, but i think michelle is more or less right in what he's saying factually. i come at this from a different persp...

Advantageous, especially if you're controlling the call screening to put people on who agree with what basically your website's platform is. i'm just -- i'm telling you, among the rank and file people i talked to, i would not -- i would not be surprised if they stuck with trump through this. >> you're getting awful close to calling those people like fake sources. >> well, you know, listen -- >> and i know you don't want to do that. >> there's a certain amount of that to politics on both sides of the aisle. you know, a lot of people view politics as just basically a team sport. you know, withou...

It was the lowest day of his presidency. >> i'm joined now by "new york times" columnist, michelle goldberg and leon wolf, managing editor of the conservative blaze. michelle, was ann coulter right just there? >> god help me, besides it being the lowest day of his presidency, there have been many, many other lower depths, but, yeah, with i think she was absolutely right. that he called this meeting to prove that he wasn't a blithering idiot and showed that he has no command on the facts of the central issue of his presidency, right? i mean, the excuse for trump is usually, he's new at this, he...

The last person that he talks to on any subject. so nothing that he actually said in the meeting can be taken seriously in terms of policy. but it was, i think, a demonstration of just how malleable and disengaged he is. >> hmm. leon? >> let me say this. i think that people like ann coulter and sean hannity and tucker carlson are about to find out the hard way what steve bannon learned earlier this week, which is that they're not driving the bus when it comes to trump support. they think they are, because they were early adopters of the trump movement. and certainly among the conservative lead...

>> well, i can't tell you. i'll sure senator mccain must know what he's talking about. when you say the alt right, define it for me. you define it. >> what we do know after today's bizarre press conference, donald trump doesn't really need bright b.a.r.t. or bannon or anyone else to recite by heart the talking points of the alt right including on monuments and culture. >> how about thomas jefferson? what do you think about thomas jefferson? do you like him? are we going to take down statue? he was a major slave owner. are we taking that down? it's fine. you're changing history. you're changing...