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Federal case is. if it is solid, they will lay out the evidence and say do you want to spend time in jail or not. it is your call. >> and we're redefining what loyalty is. we're redie -- redefining words, what it means to be a republican or democrat or patriotic and now what it is to be loyal. and t and the loyalty to president trump or his family. >> and he's under criminal investigation. >> can i -- >> but he is under criminal investigation but phil, he hasn't yet been charged with any crime. >> right. that is right. and to pick up on what you are talking about, that loyalty issue is signifi...

He is, i never believed the collusion thing against trump. there might be something to the cohen story if there are tapes in existence. there might be a can of worms we haven't seen yet that trump is starting to get quite nervous about. gillian: the loyalty issue. if there is somebody in the trump orbit so committed to the president that he's willing to shell out $130,000 in cash, the art of what's possible expands. howie: i always thought it was the legal implications. the "new york times" reported that edtold aide he wanted to can miller over reports of the deutsch bank. hard to separate thi...

He is, i never believed the collusion thing against trump. there might be something to the cohen story if there are tapes in existence. there might be a can of worms we haven't seen yet that trump is starting to get quite nervous about. gillian: the loyalty issue. if there is somebody in the trump orbit so committed to the president that he's willing to shell out $130,000 in cash, the art of what's possible expands. howie: i always thought it was the legal implications. the "new york times" reported that edtold aide he wanted to can miller over reports of the deutsch bank. hard to separate thi...

A sports team that has an outgoing roster and it is a time of rebuilding, that's what's happening. it is disappointing for me as a woman as well to see this kind of thing. in the incompetent stanstance w neilson. it is all about loyalty and how much do you support this president at any cost. it is not about policy or trying to do what's best for the country. it is not about trying to set up a negotiation or trying to put forth policy that people can agree on it encouraging bipartisanship. it is not about governing. it is all about loyalty. when you continue to have that, all of these movements...

Your new york colleagues lay out, it really appears that the president is desperately trying to get control of the russia investigation. walk us through it, especially the loyalty obsession. >> right. i mean we saw the loyalty issue, of course, in the dinner with jim comey, former fbi director recently. he said, i need your loyalty. obviously we knows this is a president who values and prizes loyalty. but what we saw here from the president dispatching his white house counsel to try to keep jeff sessions from recusing himself from the russia investigation, it shows you, set aside the question ...